Ghorin
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Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 08:43

Hello
I have a doubt concerning the loss of (1d) in Defensive stance for the player hero.
Here is what the book says :
Your attack rolls lose (1d) for each opponent engaging you.

I see here 2 understandings possibilities and I don't know which one is the right :

1) The player hero lose (1d) for all his actions against all its engaged opponents
If the hero is engaged against 3 adversaries, he lose (1d) for his own attack.

2) The player hero lose cumulative (1d) for each opponent
If the hero is engaged against 3 adversaries, he lose (3d) for his own attack.

Thanks in advance for your feedback
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 09:52

Pretty sure it's option 2 as otherwise they would have just written "Your attack rolls lose (1d)".

A better wording would have been "Your attack rolls lose (1d) per opponent engaged with you".
 
Ghorin
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 09:56

I think you're right.
In fact I understand that cumulative effect on the capacity of the hero to attack. But it also heavily impacts his capacity to flee as the "Fly, you fools !" rule asks for a successfull attack. And thus that rule will probably forbid the hero to flee (unless he gets a Gandalf rune or is very lucky in his dice roll) and will probably have him dying.
 
Ghorin
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 11:44

Another question related to the same rule, if you don't mind :

Case : An adversary is engaged by 3 player-characters :
- 1 PC in Forward stance
- 1 PC in Open stance
- 1 PC in Defensive stance

When the adversary attacks the PC in Defensive stance, does he take -(3d) malus or only -(1d) ? When I read the book, I understand that it is -(1d) but then it means that there is no reciprocity of this rule between opponents and heroes.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 12:41

Another question related to the same rule, if you don't mind :

Case : An adversary is engaged by 3 player-characters :
- 1 PC in Forward stance
- 1 PC in Open stance
- 1 PC in Defensive stance

When the adversary attacks the PC in Defensive stance, does he take -(3d) malus or only -(1d) ? When I read the book, I understand that it is -(1d) but then it means that there is no reciprocity of this rule between opponents and heroes.
I see why you might think the adversary should suffer the same malus but the adversary isn't fighting in Defensive stance. It isn't fighting in any stance at all. Its attacks are governed by the stance of the engaged Player-hero the Loremaster decides it should attack. So, +(1d) if it attacks the Forward stance Player-hero, no modifier if it targets the Open stance Player-hero, and -(1d) if it targets the Defensive stance Player-hero.
 
Ghorin
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 13:07

Thank you for your answer. I got the same in a discord server.
That's fine for me now. :-)
 
Thrudski
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 13:23

I think you're right.
In fact I understand that cumulative effect on the capacity of the hero to attack. But it also heavily impacts his capacity to flee as the "Fly, you fools !" rule asks for a successfull attack. And thus that rule will probably forbid the hero to flee (unless he gets a Gandalf rune or is very lucky in his dice roll) and will probably have him dying.

Fly, You Fools!
Player-heroes facing insurmountable odds and intending to leave the fight have two options:
1. They can first assume a Rearward stance, and then choose to escape when their turn to act comes. No roll is required to do so. The same applies to adversaries who chose to stand back and thus remained unengaged.
2. Otherwise, they can assume a Defensive stance, rolling for their attack normally: If their attack roll is a success, they do not inflict any damage but they manage to leave the battlefield instead. If the attack roll fails, the combatant remains engaged.

I take option 2 as the PH gets to roll their normal/full attack, otherwise PH's will never escape combat
 
Ghorin
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 14:21


Fly, You Fools!
Player-heroes facing insurmountable odds and intending to leave the fight have two options:
1. They can first assume a Rearward stance, and then choose to escape when their turn to act comes. No roll is required to do so. The same applies to adversaries who chose to stand back and thus remained unengaged.
2. Otherwise, they can assume a Defensive stance, rolling for their attack normally: If their attack roll is a success, they do not inflict any damage but they manage to leave the battlefield instead. If the attack roll fails, the combatant remains engaged.

I take option 2 as the PH gets to roll their normal/full attack, otherwise PH's will never escape combat
The rule text that you put in your post is your own house rule, isn't it ? When I read the core book, I don't have the same text than you.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 14:50

The rule text that you put in your post is your own house rule, isn't it ? When I read the core book, I don't have the same text than you.
I see the same rule text under "Fly, you fools!" (core rules p104) so I think your version is out of date.

[EDIT] I see it in the printed rulebook too.
 
Ghorin
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Re: Defensive stance : what malus ?

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 15:25

I was wrong, I have same text than you. Sorry.

Now you point out something interesting : there is a specific rule for character trying to flee from Defensive position.
That would give in the case of a Defensive position for a player character engaged against 3 adversaries :
- Player-character attack : Attack roll done with -(3d) malus (due to "Your attack rolls lose (1d) for each opponent engaging you" rule on page 96)
- All 3 adversaries attack : Attack roll done with -(1d) malus (due to "All close combat attacks aimed at you lose (1d)" rule on page 96)
- Player-character trying to flee : Attack roll done with -(1d) malus (due to "they can assume a Defensive stance, rolling for their attack normall" on page 104)

Do you have the same understanding ?

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