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Ptimot
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Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 14:30

Hi All,
Question to the shadow scar - if a player hero has the option to take a shadow scar to avoid madness and a flaw level how can a player ever become mad? Any thoughts? Did I miss something?
Thanks a always!
 
Thrudski
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Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2022, 15:45

Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 14:52

A PH cant turn Shadow to a Scar if the Shadow is equal to their max Hope score
Page 137: HARDEN WILL
Adventurers who are struggling under the burden of the Shadow may tap into their innermost reserves of spiritual energy to harden their determination, before it’s too late. For some, this effort takes the form of a demonstration of desperate strength; others enjoy a moment of clarity in their darkest moment, when all seems lost, and suddenly all doubts are cast away:

In game terms, Player-heroes whose accumulated Shadow does not yet match their maximum Hope score may choose to remove all their current Shadow, replacing it with a single Shadow Scar.

I have played it that the PH must have "time" to turn their potentially overwhelming amount of Shadow Points into a Scar, this time is a minimum of 1 full action [if it happens in a Combat]
 
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Ptimot
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Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 15:32

Hm, but a player likely opts for a shadow scar as the lesser of the two evils if there is choice. And there is because the player can choose at any time before their shadow points exceed their max. hope. This way madness or flaws rarely occur, unless the player decides voluntarily for roleplaying reasons? Am I correct?
 
Niallism
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Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 16:03

Well if you allow Shadow Scars to happen instantaneously, then Shadow will accumulate slowly.

However, this wouldn't mean that they will never have flaws and Madness. What will happen is that they will accumulate Shadow Scars, and even if they spend all their Adventure Points on reducing them (which would keep them weak), they will eventually earn Shadow Scars equal to their max Hope.

For example, if their max Hope is 10, and that's the point at which they suffer a bout of Madness, they will eventually get 9 Shadow Scars, and when they take any Shadow at all, will get a bout of Madness, and be back at... 9 Shadow Scars. So they will swiftly go mad and be out of the game.

So the absolute 'best' they could do is spend all their AP on healing Shadow Scars, have low Wisdom and Valour, causing them to accumulate Shadow quickly, and be without any Flaws for a goodish amount of time - and then game over. That 'game over' could be in literally one session.

That's why I think Shadow Scars have to take some time to happen. I generally say it needs to be during a short rest, and the same for turning Fellowship Points into Hope, although I don't think the latter is mechanically necessary, just an RP preference.
 
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Ptimot
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Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 18:45

Good Point! So to heal the shadow scar cost 5 Adventure points and can only be healed during a Yule Fellowship Phase, thus once a year. (p.121) That's actually quite costly and may not outweigh the evils of a flaw - putting the players in a real decision making situation. Great! Thanks!
 
Niallism
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Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Thu 08 Sep 2022, 19:03

Good Point! So to heal the shadow scar cost 5 Adventure points and can only be healed during a Yule Fellowship Phase, thus once a year. (p.121) That's actually quite costly and may not outweigh the evils of a flaw - putting the players in a real decision making situation. Great! Thanks!
And remember that each Shadow Scar is a (semi-) permanent point of Shadow, giving each character a minimum.
 
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Harlath
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Re: Shadow Scar vs Madness/ Flaws

Fri 09 Sep 2022, 13:20

I find people are willing to wear a bout of madness or two, as it resets your Shadow all the way down to 0 rather than making your next danger point come that little bit sooner due to the permanent Shadow point. Some players would rather carry a flaw than feel the need to spend AP on removing a Shadow Scar (and its Shadow point) later.

- If you're in a High Shadow environment, just tanking the Shadow and then having a Bout of Madness before the session ends may well work better than taking a Shadow scar, then having shadow increase further in the same session.

Based on the quote from the rulebook I let players do this at any point that they can normally act, I don't require a long/short rest: "For some, this effort takes the form of a demonstration of desperate strength; others enjoy a moment of clarity in their darkest moment, when all seems lost, and suddenly all doubts are cast away".

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