Mythicos
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 03:46

Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Sun 11 Jul 2021, 17:50

The new Inspiration rules feel more than slightly ripped from the pages of D&D.
The point has been made, and my skill in modern anthropology is not strong enough to argue the truth or falsehood, that TOR had it first, and D&D got it from AiME which got it from TOR, and TOR is just cycling back around to learn from its children and firm it up as a more core mechanic. Let the bickering commence.


Mike Mearls has said multiple times that The One Ring had a huge influence on him when he was working on D&D 5th edition.

So yeah, I think that it's safe to say that TOR and D&D have influenced one another; after all, that's how design evolves.
 
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Michele
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Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:58

Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Sun 11 Jul 2021, 18:06

The new Inspiration rules feel more than slightly ripped from the pages of D&D.

Inspiration as a rule was first introduced in the Rivendell supplement, back in 2014, practically in concomitance to the publication of D&D 5ed, so there has hardly been any influence between the two - it's more likely a coincidence, and the two designs have just followed parallel paths, or even the other way around: D&D has been influenced by ToR (as was also stated by its designers).

In Rivendell, characters could become Inspired with songs; in the new edition, Inspiration rules have simply been made "core", and connected to the more general Hope mechanism.

So, I would be very careful to say that anything in this edition has been ripped off from anywhere, except from something that one way or another was already there in the first edition.
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
Asgo
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Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Sun 11 Jul 2021, 18:16

more to the point, does it matter who gets what from where? (aside from strictly legal terms)
The source of any specific mechanic is completely without consequence, the question is, does it work in the local context.
If you look at games across genres and types (RPG,boardgames, computer games) almost all draw on some elements of prior work - usually if it was a good idea - and adapt it to their needs. :)

Sometimes, I personally have more a problem when a new game tries to create something different with a mechanic *just* to be different - even if there would have been a more easier way to do it, which is a waste of resources that could have been invested better.
 
RichKarp
Posts: 120
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Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Sun 11 Jul 2021, 22:35

Okay, alright. I stand corrected Re: the origins of Inspiration. That doesn’t actually change my point though that it feels quite similar to D&D. I think we would prefer the mechanics of TOR stand relatively distinct from other generic fantasy RPGs which is why it matters. Does the mechanic evoke Middle-earth especially?

I would argue that it doesn’t necessarily, not in the same obvious way that Hope does. And because it primarily interacts with Hope to modify desperate and difficult rolls, we might consider calling it something more appropriate to specific situations where characters challenge fate. That’s really my only point here, not that Inspiration as it stands is bad. I rather like the idea of it, I just wish it were a bit more evocative.
 
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jthurn
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon 01 Jun 2020, 17:58

Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 01:13

Okay, alright. I stand corrected Re: the origins of Inspiration. That doesn’t actually change my point though that it feels quite similar to D&D. I think we would prefer the mechanics of TOR stand relatively distinct from other generic fantasy RPGs which is why it matters. Does the mechanic evoke Middle-earth especially?

I would argue that it doesn’t necessarily, not in the same obvious way that Hope does. And because it primarily interacts with Hope to modify desperate and difficult rolls, we might consider calling it something more appropriate to specific situations where characters challenge fate. That’s really my only point here, not that Inspiration as it stands is bad. I rather like the idea of it, I just wish it were a bit more evocative.
This is one theme that keeps coming up in the Alpha discussions. It seems that a good chunk of people feel that 1E provided more of the distinctiveness RichKarp mentions here. From reading the rules and the insight of others, it does feel like the designers have thrown more of the burden onto GMs and players to fill in that gap. We haven't seen the final result, mind you. Nor the supplements. Having played -- and adored -- the designers other games, it's surprising to have a 2E where so many feel the rules and theme aren't integrated enough. (I feel I can't weigh in on the topic since I've been a Loremaster long enough that I have my own swipe files and books filled with theme already.)
 
RichKarp
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 19:37

Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 01:46

Entirely possible we have simply been spoiled rotten by the 1e books. I’m confident the supplements will floor me, because they are some fantastic writers.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 05:55

Another suggested replacement for Enhearten: Urge.
I think when read in the context of the other two skills in the skill group it flows well...

Strength - - - Heart - - - Wits
Awe - - - - - - Urge - - - - Persuade
 
RichKarp
Posts: 120
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Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 12:15

Inspire was a perfect description. Why not simply revert to it and actually allow players to use successful rolls of it as another way to grant Inspiration? so players could get big “i” Inspired through playing to traits or by a successful Inspire roll.
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Skill Rename - Enhearten???

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 13:18

Inspire was a perfect description. Why not simply revert to it and actually allow players to use successful rolls of it as another way to grant Inspiration? so players could get big “i” Inspired through playing to traits or by a successful Inspire roll.
Alternatively, change big "i" "Inspired" to something else that doesn't clash (but then we are back to square one trying to think of a replacement word - Enheartened? lol)

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