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Falenthal
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 20:37

Sounds like we're not getting staves, slings, or hammers. :-/


Also wanting those for the 2nd edition.

Hammers could be "refurbished" axes or mattocks, I think.

Staves and slings should be, alongside the daggers, in the Brawl skill. Weak weapons, but offering different options (missile, two-handed blunt, one-handed piercieng,...) for the same skill.
 
gyrovague
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 20:48

Yeah Legolas uses his "long knife" at the Hornburg, but (as others have said) only as a backup because he's out of arrows. And even then I've always seen it more as a short-sword, but I guess we're getting into Balrog wings territory to argue over it.

I don't recall Aragorn receiving a knife. Was that in the movies?

In any event, I tend to rely more on general depictions of cultures, rather than taking single characters as being representative. E.g., Mirkwood elves are described as being able to hit a bird's eye in the dark with their bows. For high elves I was recalling hosts of elves with bright spears from the first age, and in general many textual references to spears, but then again Legolas tells the company that they breathe so loudly the elves of Lorien could shoot them in the dark. So there's that.

Or Dwarves and swords: somebody up thread said that it's hard to imagine Gimli using a sword, but at the end of the Hobbit all of Dain's folk come equipped with mattocks and a shortsword.
 
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Falenthal
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 21:12

And Thorin takes Orcrist for himself, it being a sword.
Anyone remembers how the dwarves were equipped when they left Lake-town for Erebor?
 
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Smog
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 21:29

Yeah Legolas uses his "long knife" at the Hornburg, but (as others have said) only as a backup because he's out of arrows. And even then I've always seen it more as a short-sword, but I guess we're getting into Balrog wings territory to argue over it.

I don't recall Aragorn receiving a knife. Was that in the movies?

In any event, I tend to rely more on general depictions of cultures, rather than taking single characters as being representative. E.g., Mirkwood elves are described as being able to hit a bird's eye in the dark with their bows. For high elves I was recalling hosts of elves with bright spears from the first age, and in general many textual references to spears, but then again Legolas tells the company that they breathe so loudly the elves of Lorien could shoot them in the dark. So there's that.

Or Dwarves and swords: somebody up thread said that it's hard to imagine Gimli using a sword, but at the end of the Hobbit all of Dain's folk come equipped with mattocks and a shortsword.
Correct, Aragorn was gifted a dagger by Celeborn in the movies. In the books he received only the Elfstone and a sheath for Anduril. I was only commenting that perhaps that was one source of the poster's belief that Elves were somehow associated with daggers.

If we are going to assume Elves continued to have their same preferred weaponry from the First Age (which is logical and my own preference as well), then Tolkien was fairly specific in his stating that the Noldor preferred swords and shields, the Vanyar spears, and the Teleri (who would later in part become the Sindar, Nandor, and Silvan of Middle-earth) the bow.

But again, Middle-earth is not as simple and archetypal as something like Dungeons and Dragons or other generic fantasy. These were complex cultures that lived for thousands of years. It's not as if individuals didn't use all different weapons as might have been their preference; Gil-Galad is the most obvious example as he was about as Noldo as one can be but used a spear.

That said, if we want to talk about the broad cultural preferences of the Elves of Middle-earth, which by the late Third Age was almost entirely Silvan and Noldor, then Tolkien is clear in stating them to be bows and swords, for the two groups respectfully.
 
Otaku-sempai
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 21:38

Sounds like we're not getting staves, slings, or hammers. :-/
Staves, at least, probably should be in the game; short staves are typically carried by the Bounders who protect the borders of the Shire. I would imagine that some Hobbits (and maybe Men of Bree) are quite adept with them.
#FideltyToTolkien
 
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Smog
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 21:41

And Thorin takes Orcrist for himself, it being a sword.
Anyone remembers how the dwarves were equipped when they left Lake-town for Erebor?
In short? They weren't. They had all of their arms taken when they were captured in Mirkwood, and obviously hadn't gotten them back before their escape. All that occurs in Lake-town is that they are outfitted for the journey with new clothes, provisions, and a boat. It isn't until Smaug leaves the mountain that they are able to reequip themselves, and even that is light on details beyond saying that Thorin gets an axe and most of the party outfits themselves with suits of mail, weapons, and helms (much of the description of this scene is of course given over to Bilbo's donning of the mithril shirt).
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 22:08

Sounds like we're not getting staves, slings, or hammers. :-/
Staves, at least, probably should be in the game; short staves are typically carried by the Bounders who protect the borders of the Shire. I would imagine that some Hobbits (and maybe Men of Bree) are quite adept with them.
And of course Gandalf's staff is fairly iconic, even if it's not exactly a quarterstaff.
 
Lem23
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon 13 Jul 2020, 17:52

Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 22:20

Sounds like we're not getting staves, slings, or hammers. :-/
Staves, at least, probably should be in the game; short staves are typically carried by the Bounders who protect the borders of the Shire. I would imagine that some Hobbits (and maybe Men of Bree) are quite adept with them.
And of course Gandalf's staff is fairly iconic, even if it's not exactly a quarterstaff.
Gandalf might have a staff, but when he's seen to be fighting, he usually wields Glamdring, his sword.
 
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Falenthal
Posts: 266
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Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 22:32

And Thorin takes Orcrist for himself, it being a sword.
Anyone remembers how the dwarves were equipped when they left Lake-town for Erebor?
In short? They weren't. They had all of their arms taken when they were captured in Mirkwood, and obviously hadn't gotten them back before their escape. All that occurs in Lake-town is that they are outfitted for the journey with new clothes, provisions, and a boat. It isn't until Smaug leaves the mountain that they are able to reequip themselves, and even that is light on details beyond saying that Thorin gets an axe and most of the party outfits themselves with suits of mail, weapons, and helms (much of the description of this scene is of course given over to Bilbo's donning of the mithril shirt).
Thanks!
I also don't remember that they were given any weapons (at least not detailed) in Rivendell to endure the hazards of the High Pass. And Beorn gives them bows and arrows (and maybe some knives?) that they don't use very well.
 
gyrovague
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue 28 Apr 2020, 16:52

Re: My one major peeve with TOR

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 23:29



Staves, at least, probably should be in the game; short staves are typically carried by the Bounders who protect the borders of the Shire. I would imagine that some Hobbits (and maybe Men of Bree) are quite adept with them.
And of course Gandalf's staff is fairly iconic, even if it's not exactly a quarterstaff.
Gandalf might have a staff, but when he's seen to be fighting, he usually wields Glamdring, his sword.
I can't recall a single instance of him actually hitting anything with his staff. (Maybe he did in the movies.). But, nevertheless, it's iconic.

Also, he trotted around Middle-earth for an awfully long time before he picked up Glamdring.
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