Forum

I know what would be in my ruck and duffel and the base game allows for almost nothing there. I know how much space they take up. Rations is really the only thing a character has that belongs there.
1e and 2e assume a build up for the Kalisz push. The introductory module is meant to decrement stuff. If that is to be played out in 4e, more stuff should be on hand.
1e and 2e require (though how often is it done?) that anything that can't be carried (on person or in vehicles) be left.
1e and 2e assume the group will "buy" a still and have it mobile. Losing the still is a major plot point for a campaign.

On the subject of empty casings (or is it complete cartridges?) used as currency, this is as silly as Dragonlance's steel pieces. These things have use outside of being a trade good, so there value as currency is limited. It's why humans use gold and silver for trade; before the computer age, they had no other practical use. Dollars and Zloty and Deutschmarks will retain value as long as people believe the next guy will honor their value, too. Coins will be the most likely surviving currencies, so it still clinks if you want jingly bags trading hands for stuff. But using useful things as currency rather than barter breaks verisimilitude for me.

On the difficulty of forage, how many others are or have done so recently in the same area? There may not be anything because "everyone else" has hunted it out. And any remaining animals are likely far more skittish around the apex predators than a few years ago. Fine tuning the difficulties is a valid discussion, but acknowledging you aren't the first in the hex needs to be done.

Another idea: frankly, I think 5km hexes are probably a better idea, for a whole bunch of reasons. For one thing, it eliminates several of these mental disconnects while staying closer to the rules as currently written. For another, it encourages movement at more realistic speeds. For another another (and highly related to the previous one)... if you actually look at central Poland... it is NOT sparse. There is some little hamlet or industrial facility or significant gathering of structures every couple of kilometers, mostly! Between Kalisz and Sieradz, for instance, just on the MSR, there are about 10 of these places. Any one of which is a tremendous place for an ambush or a spot to check for resources or meet stragglers or any number of things.

A realistic marching speed is 5-7 kph. That's without any particular security concerns, on relatively good ground. 10km hexes already start to impose challenges on realizing complications to that, but cut them in half and suddenly you have a richer toolbox.

And yeah, agreed. Many of the career paths, mostly military, start you out with a backpack? What is that for, if not to carry all the stuff you are required to carry to survive?? It's still not easy to survive for long periods of time out of a ruck, while in a dangerous setting... so adding the unrealistic factor of simply not having any of that stuff at all simply feels out of place. Every soldier in Poland, from any army, would have had this stuff on hand... it would run out a lot slower than the ATGMs and bullets!

I think this aspect is maybe a case of trying to stick too closely to the Forbidden Lands rules. They are good rules. But they are also designed for an antique fantasy setting where the characters know little about the land around them. They need more tweaking to feel authentic in 2000 AD of the real world.

The basic load of 2e should be close to the basic kit for all military characters. Then the different branches add their own stuff on top. Align to the branch paradigm and adjust to taste, particularly if the assumption is the aftermath of Kalisz instead of the build-up.

Basic Load: Each soldier receives one of these as a basic equipment issue. It consists of a set of fatigues, a steel helmet, a pack, a shelter half, a gas mask, and one set of combat webbing.

Weapons include one bayonet, one personal weapon and six [full, based on "additional" later] magazines, six frag grenades, two smoke grenades, and 180 additional rounds of ammunition for the personal weapon. Officers and vehicle crewmen also receive a sidearm and three full magazines for it. Additional items must be purchased. Personal weapons are as indicated on the Personal Weapons Table under the particular army.

American quartermasters are somewhat more generous compared to those of other armies. In addition to the above, the basic load includes a sleeping bag, flashlight, personal medical kit, thermal fatigues, and a kevlar vest. In addition, the helmet is kevlar instead of steel.
Wt: 12 kg (15 kg for U.S.). [Emphasis added]

You continue to ignore the benefits of helper rolls

Fair, but those benefits are fairly small. If I have a helper then I get a +1, which may make it possible for me to gather 3 rations instead of 2, using the labour of two people. Or maybe if I have good skills I can potentially get 4 rations. That feeds my helper and I for today and tomorrow. On the other hand, maybe I roll 3, 5, and we use the labour of two people to come up blank.

I don't think these are bad foraging rules, though. Fact is, finding enough stuff growing wild to feed yourself is going to be hard, even on former farmland where you may have e.g. potatoes growing wild. You should expect to be doing the work daily. My complaint is, you shouldn't have to walk 10 k out and 10 k back just because another guy from your group is doing the same thing. The problem is particularly prevalent with hunting because the helpers can't help you get more food -- if you want to get more food, you need to hunt a second hex. It's the additional time for 10 k out and 10 k back that's the killer, because it dictates you can do nothing else that day.

I know people argue, "Oh, but the apocalypse apocalypsed and now there are so many people hunting," but again, this is a 10 k hex. You can't cover that area in a shift. Higher hunting pressure affects your chance of success given the amount of ground you can hunt in 6 hours. And the amount of ground you can hope to cover in 6 hours while small game hunting, realistically, unless you're using dogs, is about a 1 k hex. Similarly, foraging is a slow-moving activity in which you will never cover a 10-k hex. It's just not reasonable to impose this need to walk all day, which prevents people from doing other productive things.

The basic load of 2e should be close to the basic kit for all military characters.

Honestly, no. There may have been a big buildup for the Kalisz push, but now your division has been overrun after fighting a difficult withdrawal. You have just undergone a military disaster. You will not have a full load of ammo anymore, and you are likely to have lost equipment. The way the GDW versions of the game had players starting with full loads of ammo and full tanks of gas, vehicles with full ammo loadouts ... this was just bad.

You should start out in gear poverty, and I like that the game does this. But I feel one shouldn't have to choose between a knife and grenades -- everyone will have a knife or bayonet. And there should be some options for things that go in that mysteriously empty backpack -- options that will still leave you with hard choices. Raingear or shelter half. Sleeping bag or coat. Etc.

... if you actually look at central Poland... it is NOT sparse. There is some little hamlet or industrial facility or significant gathering of structures every couple of kilometers, mostly!

Yeah, completely as an aside, Google Earth completely blew up how I mentally pictured the game landscape back in the 80s! It's not really possible to move south from Kalisz without hitting a village.

The basic load of 2e should be close to the basic kit for all military characters.

Honestly, no. There may have been a big buildup for the Kalisz push, but now your division has been overrun after fighting a difficult withdrawal.

You ignored "adjust to taste, particularly if the assumption is the aftermath of Kalisz instead of the build-up." If you are starting the game intending to play out Kalisz, you get lots of stuff (which will be depleted in the fight). If you are starting the game in the aftermath of Kalisz, you don't. This choice must be made, and earlier versions assumed the former. If 4e wants to assume the latter, that's fine, but don't tell me my skivvies aren't in my rucksack I grabbed.

The basic load of 2e should be close to the basic kit for all military characters.

Honestly, no. There may have been a big buildup for the Kalisz push, but now your division has been overrun after fighting a difficult withdrawal. You have just undergone a military disaster. You will not have a full load of ammo anymore, and you are likely to have lost equipment. The way the GDW versions of the game had players starting with full loads of ammo and full tanks of gas, vehicles with full ammo loadouts ... this was just bad.

You should start out in gear poverty, and I like that the game does this. But I feel one shouldn't have to choose between a knife and grenades -- everyone will have a knife or bayonet. And there should be some options for things that go in that mysteriously empty backpack -- options that will still leave you with hard choices. Raingear or shelter half. Sleeping bag or coat. Etc.

Best friends! I completely agree that gear poverty (especially with fuel!!) is critical to setting up the opening moves. Otherwise, the players can quite possibly go anywhere and do anything right off the bat.

And yes, I would really really like to see a table of choices for each character profession. Then this can start to make sense... you got overrun in your bivvy and didn't have time to grab everything. Your squat house got bombed and you lost half your stuff. Etc. This stuff is fun for players... agonizing over some of the group gear questions (which don't actually exist in the alpha rules, I had to improvise from the options given) provoked some very good questions from my players! I'd just keep it simple, to maybe two selections per individual character.

Actually there is a pretty common way that soldiers lose much of their kit.

You don't go into a firefight wearing your pack. You have x amount of equipment on your combat webbing and the rest is in your pack. It is standard to drop your pack at the first sign of a contact.

What can happen is if you have to run for it or you are getting overrun you cannot get back to your pack, plus the pack may slow you down to much so you can't escape. Hence being forced to make a run for it could easily cost you your pack.

Vehicles carry kit on the outside where it can be knocked off our destroyed. A relation crewed a Centurion at the battle of Coral and the thing he most remembered was that B40 rockets blew off the turret bins and destroyed all his stuff.

Given the circumstances post the failed offensive there would be supplies of gear scattered about - the characters just have to find it.