Fria Ligans forum

Ok, slight update made to the stress responses, see the first post of this thread. In addition, the option to heal stress by rolling excess successes has been removed, as it can be exploited.
On a general note - the stress responses are not only for mechanical effect, but also intended as prompts for roleplaying. That's part of the reason why we're now more consistently giving them lasting effects. Each stress response (and most panic responses) will have a card in the new starter set.

As for Resolve, the main purpose is to even out the weight given to the four attributes - in first edition, the only derived attributed was Health, which was just equal to Strength. This gave too much weight on Strength compared to the other attributes. I also think letting characters with high Wits/Empathy more resistant to panic matches the source material quite well - just look at Ripley and Newt. And Resolve can be increased with the Seen it All talent, like Hardened can increase Health - also we're changing these to +1 (instead of +2) but they can be gained multiple times up to +3.

First, I really appreciate the sharing of the design philosophy behind the derived stats of Health (Strength/Agility) and Resolve (Wit/Empathy). This was my suspicion when I saw the change from 1.0 version Health to Evolved edition Health, but it's nice to have it confirmed. I agree that it provides nice balance for the Stats. I think telling players this design philosophy will help players who perhaps thought resolve "made no sense".
To reinforce this idea, while the description in "Core Concepts" is pretty good, and there is a bit of flavor that links the two (health's, "even if you keep your nerves..."), but perhaps there could be just a tiny bit more description to link them. I am no author, but perhaps something that reinforces the idea is that Health keeps you "in the fight" by keeping you upright, and Resolve keeps you "in the fight" by keeping you sane/keeping your cool.

Second, Great changes to Hardened and Seen it all. This makes sense, and allows for satisfying narrative progression as your character continues to survive and level up despite the horrors they have encountered along the way.

Third, removing heal stress by rolling excess successes. I think this is a good change also. While narratively I could mentally justify the idea of removing stress with extra successes as your character "gaining confidence", but I worried that it would devalue the tension of stress can gain quickly but removing stress was harder since you had to find shelter/safety/a place to hold up.
However I wonder if this idea of "gaining confidence" from over-success could be maintained a bit? Perhaps bring back the 1.0 stunt of "Gain a +1 modification to a later skill roll relating to this one", or even just saying you "get +1 to your next skill roll". Thus it maintains the idea of slight confidence boost both mechanically and narratively since the effects are temporary (the stress is still there and you will have to deal with it eventually).
Personal note on stunts: I know some people disagree but I am glad the skill specific stunts are gone. +1 to a future roll was always my favorite stunt, as it was the only generic one (besides +1dmg) that my players always remembered, whereas they forgot all the other specific ones .

I think these latest changes make a huge difference. I know I've raised a lot of concerns on this forum (and stuck to them), it's only because I think this rule system and this game is so very worth it. I'm glad I backed the kickstarter now both for the opportunity to participate in the feedback process and because I'm genuinely excited to see the Evolved Edition.

Oh, and I agree with the poster above me about removing the skill method of removing stress. I think you made the right call. With the removal of all damage causing stress, it would have been too much. GMs are often pretty liberal about handing out stress anyway - you see a corpse, you see a xenomorph, you hear an oxygen leak... So I think the balance to this feels good and can easily be made up by GM play style too.

Got to say, the responsiveness and willingness to take on what is probably sometimes quite annoying feedback, does you guys credit. Thank you for it.

Thanks!

I'll need to have a look at things in context in the updated beta PDF, but I concur with others who posted already: this does look like a notable improvement over the previous version (I haven't posted about this here on the forum, but it seems a lot of other readers shared similar concerns).

I do agree with ThreeAM that maybe allowing a conversion of an excess success into a +1 bonus on a roll related to the successful one, or maybe also generally in the same scene (I wouldn't allow carrying over that bonus for too long - if only, because I tend to forget such things after a while ).

I'll still have to make up my mind about Resolve and "physical characters" (e.g. Marines), but based on the comments on the last page, that might disappear on a second look. All in all, the proposed changes make me feel more positive about Alien EE again.

New tables look great! I would like to see Loud Noise on the Stress Response table, though, as it feels like a reasonable result of most Skill rolls, and is a fantastic tension-builder (even - or especially - if there isn't anything nearby to alert!).

I like the symmetry of the Stress Response table, where each of the 4 characteristics can get a penalty.

There is a quirk in these rules though, because of the rule that you can never roll less that 1 base dice - this means that characters with 1 or 2 base dice in a characteristic are relatively less affected by stress than more capable characters.

For instance, if I have 3 in Strength and Skill 1 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I now roll 2 base dice. A net penalty of -2.
If I'm a weakling with only 1 Strength, and Skill 0 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I roll.... well... exactly the same number of dice as normal: 1 base die. A net penalty of zero dice.

This seems counterintuitive and actually means, relatively speaking, weaker characters are less affected by stress.

I am not sure what the fix for this glitch is - other than maybe changing the rule that you can never have zero base dice? This would mean weaker characters, when under a stress response effect, would be relying purely on their stress dice. If they have no stress dice (is this possible, I'm not sure, to have the penalty but no stress dice?) it would mean they couldn't tackle the task at all until they calmed down.

I think that works?

Another thing:
I want to suggest that the character sheet is re-worked slightly, to add a stress response checkbox next to each characteristic, so players can easily track which stat is currently effected by a penalty. This is something that was done for Dragonbane, and I think it works well there.

I like the symmetry of the Stress Response table, where each of the 4 characteristics can get a penalty.

There is a quirk in these rules though, because of the rule that you can never roll less that 1 base dice - this means that characters with 1 or 2 base dice in a characteristic are relatively less affected by stress than more capable characters.

For instance, if I have 3 in Strength and Skill 1 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I now roll 2 base dice. A net penalty of -2.
If I'm a weakling with only 1 Strength, and Skill 0 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I roll.... well... exactly the same number of dice as normal: 1 base die. A net penalty of zero dice.

This seems counterintuitive and actually means, relatively speaking, weaker characters are less affected by stress.

I am not sure what the fix for this glitch is - other than maybe changing the rule that you can never have zero base dice? This would mean weaker characters, when under a stress response effect, would be relying purely on their stress dice. If they have no stress dice (is this possible, I'm not sure, to have the penalty but no stress dice?) it would mean they couldn't tackle the task at all until they calmed down.

I think that works?

Another thing:
I want to suggest that the character sheet is re-worked slightly, to add a stress response checkbox next to each characteristic, so players can easily track which stat is currently effected by a penalty. This is something that was done for Dragonbane, and I think it works well there.

Hm, that's not quite the case – the penalty is to skill rolls based on the attribute, not the attribute itself. And you can't have a score of 1 in an attribute. Sure, if someone has a score of 2 in an attribute an zero in the skill, the –2 penalty will just be a –1, but that's a pretty rare edge case.

Ah - OK, my misunderstanding, though the wording is a bit unclear:

pg. 25:

You have four attributes that indicate your core physical and mental capabilities, each rated on a scale from 1 to 5.

but also

You may assign no less than 2 and no more than 4 points to any one attribute

so, really the scale is 2-5.

Skills can be zero though. But you're right, it's an edge case.

I like the symmetry of the Stress Response table, where each of the 4 characteristics can get a penalty.

There is a quirk in these rules though, because of the rule that you can never roll less that 1 base dice - this means that characters with 1 or 2 base dice in a characteristic are relatively less affected by stress than more capable characters.

For instance, if I have 3 in Strength and Skill 1 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I now roll 2 base dice. A net penalty of -2.
If I'm a weakling with only 1 Strength, and Skill 0 and I suffer a -2 stress response penalty, I roll.... well... exactly the same number of dice as normal: 1 base die. A net penalty of zero dice.

This seems counterintuitive and actually means, relatively speaking, weaker characters are less affected by stress.

I am not sure what the fix for this glitch is - other than maybe changing the rule that you can never have zero base dice? This would mean weaker characters, when under a stress response effect, would be relying purely on their stress dice. If they have no stress dice (is this possible, I'm not sure, to have the penalty but no stress dice?) it would mean they couldn't tackle the task at all until they calmed down.

I think that works?

Another thing:
I want to suggest that the character sheet is re-worked slightly, to add a stress response checkbox next to each characteristic, so players can easily track which stat is currently effected by a penalty. This is something that was done for Dragonbane, and I think it works well there.

Hm, that's not quite the case – the penalty is to skill rolls based on the attribute, not the attribute itself. And you can't have a score of 1 in an attribute. Sure, if someone has a score of 2 in an attribute an zero in the skill, the –2 penalty will just be a –1, but that's a pretty rare edge case.

A question regarding Stress Responses during firing bursts of Full Auto. Assuming all 3 bursts land, if you get a facehugger on your stress dice during one of those bursts, do you roll the stress response, theoretically, for each burst you get a facehugger on the stress dice (for example, I get a facehugger on the stress during my first and third burst of Full Auto), or is it rolled just once at the end of all of the bursts?

And while I'm on the topic of Full Auto, just one more clarification, if I may? Unlike in the newest Blade Runner supplement where it is very clear you can't push the Full Auto rolls, meaning if you push, that particular burst is the last one in Full Auto, here in Alien there is nothing that implies that. Does that mean that pushing each burst of the of the Full Auto is allowed?
Also, does the armor of the enemy receiving the Full Auto burst apply for each burst, or just for the first one?

My instinct is that each roll for Full Auto is a separate attack, so any stress responses would be applied as they occur, armor would apply to each roll individually, and rolls could be pushed; clarification in the text would be good, though, because I can see it being interpreted a couple of different ways, and it would be useful to use standardised terminology when discussing mechanics, e.g.:

Some weapons in chapter 5 can be fired in full auto mode. When you fire with such a weapon and hit, you can immediately make a second attack, at the same target or a different one, as part of the same action. If you hit again, you may make a third attack.