ChaosAptom
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sat 07 Oct 2017, 23:09

Maybe an automatic mechanic could be implemented, I am thinking of boardgames that use such a mechanic, f.e. KingdomDeathMonster, or D&D4s MonsterManual1 that had suggestions which combinations of powers worked best.

Example:
Orcs are wild, reckless fighters, that will always use Chop&Chop or slash&thrust, never defending themselves.
Kobolds are sneaky, cowardly fighters and will use thrust&defend or dodge&thrust with spears or daggers&shields.

Clever players(or characters with the right use of skill/talent) could learn, which tactics are implemented by a type of enemy/monster and plan their HiddenCombo accordingly.The GM just has to choose between two given options. This could speed up Hidden Combo Combat, if it is available all the time. In KD:Monster, monsters have a deck of options, which are at the same time their hitpoints, reducing their choices over time. This could also be implemented in a D&D4 UNbloodied/bloodied tactic. As long as a monster is above 50% health it uses Combo A, when it drops below 50% health it uses Combo B...

I still think, given the information we have for now, that using HiddenCombo just for duels or special "boss"fights will work better.
 
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Tomas
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 10:16

Lot's of great feedback here, thanks for that. :) I'd like to emphasize again that the hidden combo system is still in development and that it will be optional. Still, during our internal tests we have felt that the hidden combos add intensity to melee combat that fits the game and its feel. Also, being a fantasy title, melee combat will be more in at the forefront in Forbidden Lands than in, for example, Mutant: Year Zero or Coriolis. In any case, the hidden combo system will be streamlined and of course subjected to external playtests in the weeks to come. :)
Fria Ligan
 
Vije
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 12:26

Hello!

First of all thank you Fria Ligan for creating great games - I am a big fan of Mutant YZ, and am very much looking forward to Forbidden Lands! 
(I have quite a few different attempted drafts of trying to modify the rule engine of MYZ to a fantasy setting :)  )

Anyway I just thought I would squeeze in my tiiiiiiny bit of slight consern about the hidden combos, or perhaps more specifically just repeat what others above have stated: please keep the new system truly optional, and dont't forget about the basic system. I think especially in situations with many enemies or NPC:s the hidden combos might clog things down a bit. 
I think it would be great if you would update the basic MYZ-system so that it is interesting to play in a world based on mostly close combat - still keeping it simple and awsome, but rich enough :)  I'm thinking simple rules or tips on how to tackle someone, hold an enemy to the ground, throw to the ground etc, so that it's not just hitpoints etc. ..And then build the optional system on top of that. 
The bonus effects in MYZ are great and can cover many things that makes a fight interesting, maybe they even are enough on their own, I don't know. I do know that I have great faith in Fria Ligan - keep up the god work! And don't listen to me, I am but a humble consumer :)  Lycka till! 
Mörkrets Zenit - en kampanj i 4 delar, med regelsystemet till Svärdets Sång:
http://www.scenariobiblioteket.se/?product_tag=vije
 
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Jurij 1138
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:41

Anyway I just thought I would squeeze in my tiiiiiiny bit of slight consern about the hidden combos, or perhaps more specifically just repeat what others above have stated: please keep the new system truly optional, and dont't forget about the basic system. 
Tomas:
I'd like to emphasize again that the hidden combo system is still in development and that it will be optional.
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Tomas
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 14:12

Anyway I just thought I would squeeze in my tiiiiiiny bit of slight consern about the hidden combos, or perhaps more specifically just repeat what others above have stated: please keep the new system truly optional, and dont't forget about the basic system. 
Tomas:
I'd like to emphasize again that the hidden combo system is still in development and that it will be optional.
Yes, and also - I wouldn't write off the hidden combo system until you've tried it. :)
Fria Ligan
 
Vije
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 21:31

Yes, and also - I wouldn't write off the hidden combo system until you've tried it. :)
Absolutely! Looking forward to getting blown away :)
Mörkrets Zenit - en kampanj i 4 delar, med regelsystemet till Svärdets Sång:
http://www.scenariobiblioteket.se/?product_tag=vije
 
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Erzaad
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 23:31

But even if we assume the hidden combo system is super fun, why is it restricted to melee characters? What will ranged/magic characters get to balance it out?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 23:40

Melee combat involves more tactical choices from both attacker and defender. Ranged combat is more the archer shooting. In some combat systems the defender is allowed to block with a shield or even make a difficult dodge roll, but that is pretty much it. Not so much "combos" involved. Magic is pretty much the same as ranged. Some choices made by the spellcaster, against some spell effect there might be a defence, against others, not. So that is more or less the reason (according to me) why melee will get a hidden-combo system and ranged/magic not.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Hidden Combos

Sun 08 Oct 2017, 23:51

Just to lend my voice to the others - I also have reservations about the hidden combo system.  My concern is that it doesn't seem very realistic.  Wouldn't the better your skill as a fighter mean that you could read your opponent better?  With this card system, it seems like a skilled fighter might choose to Stab an enemy, while they're getting ready to Stab back.  Wouldn't that fighter be able to read their intent and instead Parry their blow, rather than trade a series of Stabbing?

Also a bit concerned that this appears to be very melee-oriented, and I have players in my group who never play melee characters, so would potentially miss out on this mini-game.  Another player hates any feel of meta, and while he is the group's biggest lover of MY:Z. he hates the Ark mechanics because it feels too gamey and affects his immersion.  I think this might affect him the same way.

Anyway, really happy you guys are thinking outside the box and aiming to make combat more dynamic.  I'm definitely happy to give it the benefit of the doubt and will try it with my group!
I make YZE games (https://drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Matt%20Kay) and produce predominately Free League content on my YouTube channel (https://youtube.com/@3skulls)
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Hidden Combos

Mon 09 Oct 2017, 00:11

Regardless of if you are using tactical cards or not, Attributes, Skills, Talents and Gears will still be the base in combat. A good warrior will have a lot of dice to roll and probably a collection of talents that in various ways improves his chances in combat.

I don't know what the tactical cards in this game will do, but in HârnMaster for example, there are tactical choices when jousting, these tactical choices are on top the normal rules (and also optional). They modifies the attack/defence rolls by the attacker/defender. I can guess they do the same here. A bad fighter can try to play it safe by selecting an very defensive tactical option, to make up that he isn't that good. But a good fighter can perhaps afford to do some extra fancy maneuver to win the day.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore

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