Page 2 of 2

Re: Player Wrecking NPCs with Sharp Tongue in Combat

Posted: Wed 30 Mar 2022, 22:19
by JohanR
All of what you are saying is basically why I house ruled it in Reforged Power*.

Those house rules kind of reads as:
Broken Empathy: Set your Willpower to zero (as an approperiate critical wound effect against Empathy). While broken you must either try to attack every round, as if constantly taunted (-2 modifier to all rolls), and also push all rolls OR withdraw. If you withdraw you angrily throw away at least one item, up to the GM. The item might become lost OR roll item dice, it is damaged on each "bane/skull-symbol". And then only retreat or flee. You are too angry, sad or in other ways to emotional for any form of communication.

(* Note: I will release a reworked version, that more closely follow core rules, when Book of Beasts and The Bloodmarch arrives.)

Re: Player Wrecking NPCs with Sharp Tongue in Combat

Posted: Thu 31 Mar 2022, 00:08
by Konungr
What I am saying is that being broken by empathy basically removes the character from player control. Either, they get depressed or they fly into a rage. In the depressed state they mope about and do nothing. In the rage state the GM can decide who and what they are lashing out at. That doesn't mean they cannot attack. It means the player cannot choose who or what they are attacking. Smashing and breaking everything could be turns of wasted actions smashing pots. It could also be a blind rage focused on the person who put you there with your friends needing to subdue you to prevent you from taking what could be suicidal actions.

A player who uses silver tongue to break NPCs could just get a bunch of angry people ready to kick his ass.
This is "heads I win", "tails you loose" ruling :D

Your ignoring the BROKEN "put out of action" rule when it comes to NPCs.
I am absolutely not ignoring it. Here is the thing. You guys seem to be taking the words "put out of action" to mean "cannot make actions". Which is not the same thing. How would one "explode in a violent outburst, kicking and breaking everything around you" if you could not make actions? Case in point, go read the actual paragraphs for Broken under each attribute. Each one ends with "You can't perform any other actions and you can't roll for any skills." EXCEPT Empathy. That line that is present in EVERY OTHER ONE is missing from Empathy. Shock and awe. It's because Players and NPCs who are Empathy broken can still take actions and make skill rolls. They are just uncommunicative and unresponsive. Either because they are depressed or angry.

So some prick with silver tongue shows up and makes fun of x character. Flip a coin, roll d%, decide based on context which way x character goes. Either way, that character, by RAW, is doing 1 of 2 things and 1 of those 2 things makes them a combatant.
Your ruling is basically "Empathy Broken" is not broken unless it applies to players, the only effect is to limit the choses the NPC has.
Or do you ignore it as well when it comes to players and allow them to attack an enemy if they break in empathy?
Also not what I said. Empathy broken for a NPC forces them into particular channels of actions the same way it does for a player. See above.
Is Sharp Tongue then just a regular Manipulation that replaces "must do what you want" with "withdraw"? (other option would be to attack in both cases)

Do you apply the same ruling to HALLUCINOGENIC POISON?
or spells like GHOULISH AURA & TERROR?
Yes! A character who breaks from Hallucinogenic Poison either loses their mind and starts cowering from the crap they are seeing becoming unresponsive to those around them, or they freak out and fly into a rage lashing out at all the things they are seeing whether they are real or not. Either way, they are unresponsive until they regain a point of empathy.
In my opinion the GM must honor the rules same as players, else you are breaking certain trust you can not get back.
Then you should go back and read the rules.