...This actually comes up quite often. I've always been of the opinion brawling weapons have their own category on the Weapon table on Page 100 and that you cannot use Weapons that have an assigned Combat Proficiency as Brawling Weapons (unless they're Mithril).
p.s. or you follow the melee weapon rules (brawling) and you give the best weapon specialization for the character. But in that case, you can give a penalty since they don't have a specialization (I would do that). It's up to you.
Arthur.
The rulebook on page 65 states "Rolls made using Combat Proficiencies are resolved as Skill rolls, rolling one Feat Die and a number of Success Dice equal to the rank possessed in the Combat Proficiency used. If you try to use a weapon you don’t possess a rating for (rank 0), you roll only a Feat Die" (emphasis mine).
I don't think the brawling rules allow a Player-Hero to simply bypass Combat Proficiencies by using melee weapons that fall under Combat Proficiency categories (Spears, Swords & Axes) as improvised brawling weapons (as highlighted in the brawling rules on Page 67)?
Doing so has quite significant implications througout the game (seizing attacks, mithril weapon enhancement, allocation of starting points for Combat Proficiencies, allocation of Adventure Points during the game, etc.).
Just as some examples of some potential complications using that rule with the Enchanted Spear in question:
- A Player-Hero with 3 in Swords and 1 in Spears? He throws a Spear with 1 Skill but in melee he uses 2 die as a brawling weapon or because he is trained he only uses his Spear skill of 1? If the latter, from a mechanical perspective the Spear would be better in the hands of someone with no training in Spears (but 3 in a different Combat Proficiency).
- A Player-Hero with 3 in Bows and 1 in Swords. He's trained in Swords but if he uses the Enchanted Spear in Melee he can roll 2 die as a brawling weapon?
- If seized, can that Player-Hero use the spear, with its enhancements, as a brawling weapon to make brawling attacks? If so, what is the purpose of having a dagger (or other brawling category weapon) or the Mithril enchantment (other than reducing weapon weight)?
I am not sure if how I do it is correct or if what you've suggested above is correct, but as there are clearly different interpretations for something that impacts a number of areas in the game it would be good to get this clarified (and once clarified if possible added to a future errata).
Hi Antaean, thank you for the feedback. I think your explanations are correct. I know the rules. You're following the rules, and that's perfect. There are people who will follow the rules to the letter without question and never stray from the established path. I usually follow the rules, but sometimes I make up my own (house rules) if I feel like it. I should have said that I was talking about an house rule, sorry.
That said, PDF corebook TOR page 67...
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BRAWLING ATTACKS
Adventurers who must leave behind their trusted weapons may find themselves forced to fight unarmed, or to rely on a simple dagger, or even a thrown stone. When this happens, they rely on their martial training to save themselves.
Player-heroes performing an attack while unarmed, or using a dagger, club, or an improvised weapon, roll a number of dice equal to their highest Combat Proficiency, but suffer a disadvantage: they lose (1d).
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So, in this case, I suggested this method. My suggestion should have been viewed like any improvised weapon, such as a thrown stone or anything else, without any additional advantages or magical effects... But thinking about it, that might not have been such a great suggestion after all. Taking only the feat die without adding any success dice remains the best solution, I believe.
You're right, the purists will only use the brawling weapons listed on page 100 of the weapons table. But if you think about it logically, if we're allowed to use a stone, we should also be allowed to use the spear for brawling. However, it shouldn't be any more advantageous to use this method (brawling) than the combat proficiency system, which defines a character's expertise with that weapon. Ultimately, I don't have an answer ... (Perhaps consider negative bonuses if a proficiency combat weapon is used; I'll think about it for a house rule, and people will take a stone instead... that's what we want) ...
But indeed, there's room for interpretation and differing opinions regarding this Brawling Attacks rule. Granting one success die instead of the best combat proficiency might be more appropriate. Opinions are divided.
Arthur.
