Forum

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I might add an element to the ARMOR aspect of the rules on my table. Let's take the M3 personal armor with its Armor level 2 as an example. As Rorsach said, when you take damage with an attack, the damage is always (and forever) reduced by the armor level (the new rule for ARMOR). The effectiveness of handguns and even pulse rifles is reduced. This is very strong, perhaps even too strong. I'm going to introduce an attrition system (not as drastic as a supply roll), but I'll count a maximum number of damage points taken (to that gear) and reduce the armor's effectiveness by minus 1 armor level (or more) in a game if I deem it necessary.

Arthur.

Well, let's be careful about that. You still haven't entirely solved the issue of 'either you're in cover when taking Real Gunfire and therefore Completely Immune To Damage or Dead In The Street'. While this means that over time players become vulnerable to some attacks, this only really applies outside of being hunkered down. An M41A kills you in either state, just faster with armor degradation.

At the risk of self-aggrandizement... I think the system was too variable in first edition with 'must roll successes for armor points', but now it's become too static. if there's significant desire for streamlined but "immersive" armor protection the ideal is probably to add small variance, abstracting impact angles, coverage, and protection class zones.
But this depends on if you want that over just giving players extra resilience in combat which isn't wholy dependent on HP.

I think it's okay to make the players not too superhuman... we're not in Marvel, it's Alien, we need to keep the concept of stress and tension... the PCs are heroes, yes, but ordinary people... as with everything, I'll test and adjust later... we started playing this week... I'll give myself some time before changing anything, but I think the rule for ARMOR will be what I wrote... for my game table anyway.

Arthur.

Maybe these two aspects combined (armor and dodging) cause "the problem". In my session, all PCs wore kevlar vests and they absorb the damage left after dodging (in some cases like bare hand punches, in other they were shot by AP weapons and had no effect).

I have seen other proposals I think may have sense. For example, you can dodge if the space is cluttered in some way (it can sound strange at first) but you cannot dodge in hallways, corridors, open ground or similar. In essence, you cannot dodge in spaces where you can't hide in some way after throwing onto the ground. If not, it's a bit Matrix.

For now, I will stick to the rules as they are, but if problems keep going like: an "intellectual" PC (like scientist, medic or corporate agent) dodging bullets from a Spec Ops squad in the middle of a corridor, thanks to additional stress dice and pushing rolls, I will consider tweak some rules. Not because I want to kill PCs but because the view seems a bit comical or even ridiculous (and this is Alien not a comedy).

I don't have much issue with combat vs. humans being a little less lethal (especially outside of Cinematic scenarios). Movies have all kinds of characters dodging fire in wide open ground all the time without resorting to bullet time; the only reason there aren't many examples of that in Alien specifically is because it's very rare to have humans shooting at humans in Alien movies.

I haven't run EE yet, so I haven't experienced any of this, but what about disallowing pushes on interrupt rolls? When it comes to normal skill rolls,I think of pushing as meaning the task is more difficult than the character expected, which makes them get stressed and try even harder. It doesn't make sense to "dodge harder" because you think your first attempt wasn't good enough. OP, do you think that would have helped in your case, even with using random targets like you described?

No, no... I would change nothing in the next few sessions and I would stick to the rules as they are. Maybe it's a matter of luck.

But I'm worried... In that session, the enemies threw 9 dice for ranged combat (a lot!). As NPCs they can't push according to rules, they couldn't reroll. The PCs, like the medic in this case, threw 5 dice for dodging (but more dice since they had Stress), maybe 2 more to a total of 7... Since they can push, the total was 14! And with the new Stress Response table, the skill has success even with a 1 on a Stress die (only a 7+ "Mess Up" means failure). You only have to compare 9 against 14 to see how easy is to dodge a ranged attack to a character not precisely faster... And this with strong enemies, imagine the situation against roughnecks or cultists throwing 5 or 6 dice.

I don't know, maybe not pushing the roll can be the solution; maybe this relegates the Dodge action to a useless action. I am afraid this or other option can imbalance the game, so I am going to wait playing RAW or waiting for some feedback (if there is some). Other solutions may not be viable like allowing NPCs to push rolls (this would bog down the flow of the game).

All in all, in other games like Forbidden Lands, people play with some minor houserules (character progression, removing some talent and not much more) widely accepted by the community.

I don't have much issue with combat vs. humans being a little less lethal (especially outside of Cinematic scenarios). Movies have all kinds of characters dodging fire in wide open ground all the time without resorting to bullet time; the only reason there aren't many examples of that in Alien specifically is because it's very rare to have humans shooting at humans in Alien movies.

Yes, that's true, but in my case (and I suppose in other cases), Alien rpg campaigns shouldn't show xenomorphs too soon or too often or mistery, thrills, etc. dissipate too son.

Trying to avoid spoilers, for example, the Colonial Marine campaign from the first edition includes more fights against humans (that is, ranged combat) than xenos which in many cases were hinted... Sometimes you see a xeno corpse, other times there were no xenos, and in some scenarios there were some (not many). It was more about political intrigue and action, but against human enemies.

Alien RPG (regardless of version) is a very cinematic game (talking about how the rules work, not the game mode) with the focus point of the players, it isn't a simulation game. This means what the characters are doing and especially how they are doing things is a bit like in action horror flicks. Sure, it isn't as cinematic as Outgunned, but it flirts with the genre. Just something to have in mind when they are discussion things.

I suspect that the current state of second edition ARPG's gunfighting is designed fairly heavily around dodging and cover. Looking at armor protection the best that 'regular' armor can do for you is intercepting handgun ammunition. Increasing this is then problematic because it's a static armor score (unless this changed from my copy of Beta 2)

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I might add an element to the ARMOR aspect of the rules on my table. Let's take the M3 personal armor with its Armor level 2 as an example. As Rorsach said, when you take damage with an attack, the damage is always (and forever) reduced by the armor level (the new rule for ARMOR). The effectiveness of handguns and even pulse rifles is reduced. This is very strong, perhaps even too strong. I'm going to introduce an attrition system (not as drastic as a supply roll), but I'll count a maximum number of damage points taken (to that gear) and reduce the armor's effectiveness by minus 1 armor level (or more) in a game if I deem it necessary.

Arthur.

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I'm answering to myself (hahaha): when a personal M3 armor piece has absorbed, say, 12 points of damage (that is, armor level 2 x 6), its effectiveness will be reduced by 1 armor level. I might try that. As Ninchilla said, humans shooting at other humans is rare in the Alien RPG, but it's a rule I might keep.

Arthur.

I suspect that the current state of second edition ARPG's gunfighting is designed fairly heavily around dodging and cover. Looking at armor protection the best that 'regular' armor can do for you is intercepting handgun ammunition. Increasing this is then problematic because it's a static armor score (unless this changed from my copy of Beta 2)

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. I'm going to introduce an attrition system (not as drastic as a supply roll), but I'll count a maximum number of damage points taken (to that gear) and reduce the armor's effectiveness by minus 1 armor level (or more) in a game if I deem it necessary.

Arthur.

I'm likely to use such as well. I think a ratio a good approach. Here's what I've been thinking, but until I get to table, can't really test for feels...
Damage ≤ AV/2 no check.
Damage > AV/2 is 1d check
Damage > AV is 2d check