User avatar
Tomas
Site Admin
Topic Author
Posts: 5065
Joined: Fri 08 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Fri 16 May 2025, 18:58

Thank you for the clarification! That makes sense. So when we roll the same one again, it is basically a 0 - Keeping It Cool, free pass type of thing? And I suspect the new stress effects last a Stretch by default?
Thank you again for all your hard work and for responding to us so quickly with these new updates.
Yes, rolling the same effect again is a free pass - until you Mess Up... :)
The stress effects last until you relieve (at least) 1 point of stress.
Thanks for the feedback!
Fria Ligan
 
User avatar
Operations
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon 17 Oct 2022, 22:01

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Fri 16 May 2025, 20:43

Seems perfect to me.

While a 2d6 bull curve helped to make stress and panic more "consistent" the problem is IRL stress and panic is very inconsistent from person to person, and even within a person the responses can very from stimulus to stimulus. People be weird like that. :)

I think these are a really good fit, and make resolve a more impactful consideration (and trade of to build into).
 
User avatar
Storm
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon 09 Oct 2023, 00:54

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Fri 16 May 2025, 21:48

This is so much better! Thank you so much for this! Thank you for taking the time and listening to our feedback!
 
ThreeAM
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun 11 May 2025, 17:55

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Fri 16 May 2025, 23:07

I am thrilled to see these alternative tables, i like the direction.

Two inquires I have:
1. Will this impact/force changes of other systems that interact with Stress. Such as Talents (seen it all) or other things that involve Stress/Resolve?

2. Are the designers and players happy with the new rate of stress gain. I know its always been walking that fine line of increasing tension while avoiding stress/panic cascades of doom. Specifically I am thinking that the beta 2d6 original tables had results that liberally gave out +1 Stress, and I assume this was balanced with the removal of stress gain from taking damage (1.0 rules). So with the removal of both 1.0 stress from damage and from the Stress response table, Is the stress gain "rate" in a good spot now? or will some other tweaks need to be made to keep the tension ratcheting up.
 
User avatar
MaelstromUK
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 28 Jul 2019, 23:22

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 00:43

Thanks! Looking forward to giving this a try. The changes do look very significant! I particularly notice the new stress response table doesn't have a way for you or others around you to gain stress, which will have a huge impact on the stress spiral we saw when playing with the original beta table. It will be interesting to see how this balances out, along the lines of what the previous poster said.
 
User avatar
Jeff Wilder
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 01:58

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 01:13

This looks pretty good, and I'm heartened by the turnaround time (and the willingness).

I will point out that the bell curve, per se, wasn't really the problem. In fact, done properly, the bell curve can do both things that seem to be the worthwhile objectives: mitigating the prevalence of Stress/Panic spirals and providing more common, less common, and even rare varied responses.

For example, assuming an average PC Resolve of 4, and Stress of 3, a 3d6 table could put "Keep it together" from <=8 (penis unintentional, but funny), which would produce a response only a little more than 50% of the time*, and would allow 10 other entries of increasing severity. (These numbers would represent my preferences for ALIEN PC competence, but are easily tweaked as long as the math is kept in mind.)

Bell curves really aren't the enemy, I promise.

*Note that with 3 Stress, the table from ALIEN (Unevolved) produces a response 50% of the time.
Jeff Wilder | San Francisco Bay Area
"And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me." | Belly
 
BurningChrome
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon 11 Nov 2024, 23:12

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 07:07

Hello again!

As mentioned, we are reviewing your feedback and have developed a modified version of the stress and panic response tables. Please see below. Also, the roll is now D6 + stress level – Resolve (not 2D6).
……
This new table also completely separates stress responses from panic responses, and should overall be more intuitive to use.
Feel free to have a look before we add this to the next BETA PDF.
First of all, thank you very much for your willingness to consider the community.

Without having tested the new table, I wonder if it might have the opposite effect. The first version resulted in effects that could quickly hinder the characters. Furthermore, players could also fast gain additional stress.

With the new table, however, I almost don't have the option to gain stress. Even in the panic table there are nearly no stress gains. Won't that make the stress spiral too weak? Now you can only gain stress by pushing and in certain situations when the Game Mother deems it appropriate? But can you reduce it through extra successes that you trade in?

That seems almost too "easy" to me.
 
elenttar
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri 09 May 2025, 18:43

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 08:46

It will be changes for Stress & Panic Response Tables in Solo Mode?
 
User avatar
Teean
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2024, 13:37

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 11:17

Thanks for listening and taking on board feedback about these tables. This change resolves the two largest concerns I had with it which are the Stress Snowball effect and the very dangerous effect of Mess Up previously. I (of course) do have comments - sorry. But anything I say beyond this point do please read in the context of the biggest issues with Stress Response being fixed and this being a big step forward.

So my comments which you may or may not want to take on board but I'll share anyway in no particular order:
  • This creates a kind of a hierarchy of attributes in that a -2 dice to Empathy is regarded by the table to be worse than a -2 to Agility which is worse than a -2 to Wits, so forth. It's a minor thing but it is an odd thing, in its way. Combined with the fact that physically focused characters are slightly penalised when it comes to staying calm (due to Resolve being (Wits+Empathy)/2) there are some subtle biases creeping in here and there. But I notice that you make one each of the physical and mental attributes low and one each of them high, so I guess that's an intent to try and compensate for that. In any case, it's relatively minor but noticeable. I feel Deflated is actually worse than current 5 and 6, fwiw, because with average stats or better, losing the ability to push a roll is worse than two dice difference. There's a cost to pushing a roll but it's a choice on the player's part and the likely number of rerolled dice is much higher than 2 so I'm calling Deflated as worse than both Aggravated and Frantic in the general case. Swapping the order so Deflated was higher would also reduce the effect of making a hierarchy of attributes, slightly.
  • You've gone to quite another extreme now with removing ALL chances to increase Stress directly so that where before it was almost certain, now it never happens. I personally think Mess Up might be nice if rather than an additional stress response, you have the existing "fail" but gain +1 Stress. That makes a lot of sense in-game as your failure makes you even more stressed out. And if a player is rolling Mess Up there's a decent chance they already have one or more of the previous Stress Responses ongoing leading to either no additional Stress Response happening (if you're supposed to just ignore duplicate results) or multiple re-rolling (if you're supposed to re-roll things you already have). I think it's the former from reading later posts. Adding back in this as the single thing that adds +1 Stress is simpler and it's a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  • On the Panic table, I feel if you're going to spell out the mechanical effect of Noisy (alerting enemies within X zones), then that should also be an effect spelled out for Scream further down.
  • My feedback about Resolve in general remains. I like the idea of different characters having different levels of resistance to stress but as written it's still going to almost always be the same -3 or -4 for everybody and with the same odd bias towards non-physically orientated characters. You could make it simpler and faster in play to just have stress and panic results start at 4+ similar to Panic's 'Keeping It Together' in the current edition. Or else need to add more ways to actually have different Resolve between characters than that single talent which is just a renamed one from current edition and therefore doesn't really make an argument for why Resolve is useful to introduce. IMO Resolve should either be dropped or do something actually radical with it like make it a fifth attribute (without skills) or something purchasable with XP or something like that.

Again, all my comments not meant to detract that these changes make things much better than they were and are appreciated.
 
User avatar
_ArthurDallas_
Moderator
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed 04 Mar 2020, 03:22

Re: Beta Feedback - Alternative Stress & Panic Response Tables

Sat 17 May 2025, 11:30

This looks pretty good, and I'm heartened by the turnaround time (and the willingness).

I will point out that the bell curve, per se, wasn't really the problem. In fact, done properly, the bell curve can do both things that seem to be the worthwhile objectives: mitigating the prevalence of Stress/Panic spirals and providing more common, less common, and even rare varied responses.

For example, assuming an average PC Resolve of 4, and Stress of 3, a 3d6 table could put "Keep it together" from <=8 (penis unintentional, but funny), which would produce a response only a little more than 50% of the time*, and would allow 10 other entries of increasing severity. (These numbers would represent my preferences for ALIEN PC competence, but are easily tweaked as long as the math is kept in mind.)

Bell curves really aren't the enemy, I promise.

*Note that with 3 Stress, the table from ALIEN (Unevolved) produces a response 50% of the time.
...

Jeff, I was waiting to see how you would react. I like your ideas, and you seem to be better than me at probability and statistics analysis. I also like the new Stress & Panic tables.
Moderator (Free League Alien RPG Forums)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests