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Anyway ... I have a little doubt about going to see (I haven't seen it yet) Alien Romulus for the reviews (that I read) of the last 15 minutes looking like "Alien Resurection" ... I have a hard time liking "Alien Resurection" for its ending precisely ...

P.S. I don't understand the "deep desire" of so many movie-directors when they take on a project ... like Alien for exemple ... they always have to invent their own little creature (or thing) instead of staying in the fan service that all the fans want ...

P.S. sorry it's my negative tantrum ... I'm going back to the positive ....

Arthur.

Some clarifications - no rose colored glasses here - I just measure things by my own crazy yardsticks - rather than the usual online ones.

Gaska divided the ALIEN franchise into 4 "tiers" of canon-ness - I tend to do the same but with only two "tiers" for my "head-canon"

For me, the ALIEN franchise tier 1 are the 3 parts of the ALIEN story line I feel are the *most* ALIEN:
ALIEN: SE (1979, 2003) with some workprint added scenes as well ...
ALIEN: ISOLATION (2014)
ALIEN 3: SE (1992, 2003)

Everything else ... is tier 2 (and yes fan folks that includes ALIENS: DC/SE)
The TL;DR rationale is because those three movies in that order tell a much more compelling dark sci-fi horror story for me without having an action rollercoaster comedy in the middle, or unnecessary prequels and sequels beyond that..

Okay - so where does Romulus fit in this? Tier 2 obviously. Why does it matter to me?
Because tier 2 I will watch simply for the fun of it - and I don't let any of the inconsistencies, mistakes, missteps or anything else in the tier 2 bother me because *they don't matter to my headspace canon story"

My ALIEN universe doesn't have to have any of the stuff from the prequels or sequels that I don't want it to.

So watching Romulus - I can just look for "fun stuff I can use" and let the rest that doesn't fit or make sense ... just go by in the stream of images and sounds.

I walked out of the theater midway the first time I saw ALIENS because it annoyed me so much because a) kids in sci-fi annoy me greatly and there was Newt, and b) I already knew there were cocoons and aliens turning victims into more eggs and all that stuff that meant there was no queen or even need for one... ALIENS broke the canon for me back in 1986 - and ALIEN 3 did its best to restore it despite Executive Meddling ... and polishing up the Assembly Cut took it much much further (so good to see the entire Golic subplot restored.)

Anyway - after coming to terms with the iconic fan-favorite ALIENS breaking the ALIEN story so badly - it's much easier for me to overlook whatever rampant nonsense someone wants to throw in including the entire AVP universe.

Romulus: I see it as the New Alien Formula Movie that was really first established with ALIEN: Covenant ...
Step 1: "How can we take everything the fans say good things about on the forums, and arrange those scenes in some order that sounds like a plot?
Step 2: "Okay, how can we add some characters that look and act like fan favorites?"
Step 3: "Finally, is there something body horror like we haven't done yet?"

Alien: Covenant was like watching an Alien franchise highlights reel with some new FX and different actors.
Enjoyable, but I'd already seen all of those scenes in other movies. Good "twist" ending you could see coming more than an hour in advance tho....

Alien: Romulus was ALSO like watching an Alien franchise highlights reel with new FX and different actors.
How many of the scenes in Romulus can you count that were lifting the same scene from a previous Alien movie?
Heck the entire movie was lampshading the "okay, let's pick and choose bits of ALIEN and ALIENS and mash them together" with a sprinkling of stuff from the rest of the franchise.
When we drop the no-spoilers things for Romulus - (I guess when the disks release?) then I can go and itemize all of this to the n-th degree.

Does any of that detract from my enjoyment? Not really because I don't hold tier 2 canon stuff to the same standard as I do the tier 1 stuff.
It's okay (to me) for tier 2 to mess up, goof off, go in weird directions, whatever, as long as they do an honest job of trying to make it make some sense and keep it somewhere in the same ballpark as other ALIEN stuff.
Do that, and they can have my money.

Extras for the hardcore ALIENS fans:
Please, don't test me on this - I have been debating ALIENS issues since 1986 and am well prepared to defend my positions if needed, starting with my list of 101 things left out of ALIEN that were recycled for ALIENS. Please let it go that someone out there (me) might disagree with you on ALIENS being Teh Mostest Awezum ALIEN movee EVAR! You're not wrong. You're just not right to me.
If we do want to go ride that rocket - how about a new thread full of flame bait with Fenhorn laying out ground rules first?

Meanwhile, as a nod to the hardcore ALIENS fans to show I am simply not an evil troll and can possibly fairly judge things:
Newt annoyed me as a character because I don't like kids in sci-fi. Billy Mumy in Lost in Space was the only acceptable one. After him, it's been done, and better... move on Newt, Wesley, etc.
The actress did an amazing job portraying Newt and nothing but respect for that - her first (and only?) role and with the excellent coaching from Sigourney Weaver and the excellent direction from James Cameron - she sells the disaster victim turned feral cunning survivor quite well. No complaints on the acting or actress there. My dislike comes from trying to turn ALIEN into a family story.
To quote Dan O'Bannon: "I didn't give the characters backstory or motivations because I didn't give a ..." because they were just there to die.

Also - James Cameron took a job he knew was going to annoy people like me - and did a spectacular job with it anyway, despite people like me (including hardcore Ridley fans on the crew). There are moments in ALIENS that are (IMO) his best directing work bar none. Two examples: the sentry gun scene ... masterful ... there's an entire battle with hundreds of aliens... all done in close up face cuts of actors, a counter counting down, and sound effects. That's it. Stunning. And they had to cut it from the theatrical for pace? boo executives boo. The other amazing scene is ... the operations firefight. With only six Alien stunt costumes ... his directing skills made you think there were swarms of them. Still impressive even today.

So, I can (and do) fully appreciate the fan favorite ... but ... its not my favorite or "the best ALIEN movie" in any stretch of my imagination. Sorry.

With all of that said - Romulus will go into my collection, and be enjoyed many times many more times because ... the kids in it are old enough to not annoy me ... the aliens in it are well enough in the Alien franchise universe to fit ... and it was done well enough that the flaws or other weirdness don't really bother me. No, not even Rook. heh.

My challenge to folks who don't like Romulus for whatever reason:
Can you name 10 good things about Romulus? I know I can once we go all spoilery. I'll probably figure out a lot more once I have the disk in my hands and can really dig through it.
And if you can name at least 10 good things then maybe you have given it a fair review and if so, then maybe that's enough to give it a pass?

[quote=_ArthurDallas_ post_id=92830 time=1725029009 user_id=8222]
Anyway ... I have a little doubt about going to see (I haven't seen it yet) Alien Romulus for the reviews (that I read) of the last 15 minutes looking like "Alien Resurection" ... I have a hard time liking "Alien Resurection" for its ending precisely ...

P.S. I don't understand the "deep desire" of so many movie-directors when they take on a project ... like Alien for exemple ... they always have to invent their own little creature (or thing) instead of staying in the fan service that all the fans want ...

P.S. sorry it's my negative tantrum ... I'm going back to the positive ....

Arthur.
[/quote]

PM me if you want my interpretation of that impression of the ending.

As far as why they keep inventing new - because they can't win for losing: Ridley said "the beast is cooked" long before Prometheus ...

As a creative unit - if you just stick to the original beasts - people yell that you're just rewarming left-overs.

If you add new beasts - people yell that you're trashing canon.

There really is no winning here - so the creative units get into a calculus experimenting with how much "Classic Coke" alien they can mix with "New Coke" alien and still sell tickets.

That sort of stuff used to annoy me - now I am just happy they are making something vaguely ALIEN instead of yet-another-romantic-comedy (which have no reason to even be on a big screen.)

I will keep throwing money at them to keep trying to find something new and creative to say within the vague framework of the ALIEN 'verse ...

Hi!

To input some kind of discrepancy, I should say that Romulus was a kind of "meh" movie for me... Not a horrible movie, not even bad but not a good movie as many people are telling out there.

Strong points:

- The setting is awesome. I would say that it's a must-see only for that.

- Some characters like Andy or the leading role. Really good performances.

- No ambitions or aspirations (a key difference with Prometheus or Covenant).

Weak points:

- FAN SERVICE. Specially one (people who have watched the movie know what I'm talking about for sure)... This one should be a crime. Every time I saw It, I was out of the movie. Horrible.

- Aliens are tertiary here. You'll see aliens but, I don't know why they are not supposed to be a great menace... Partly because characters (simple prospectors) change into powerful colonial marines without reason.

- Some kind of feeling of "I don't what they are doing" or "I don't know where they are". In Cameron's Aliens with some sentences and some locations, you can know where the characters are in every moment. Even in Alien you can imagine the Nostromo inside... Here, in Romulus station, it was difficult and confusing. Sometimes the characters were running through a corridor, the next scene they are inside an elevator, they are in a service ladder, then again in the last level, etc.

And that's all.

I would say again: it's not a bad movie but I was expecting something better, even with expectations.

ExileInParadise ... a big thank you for your analysis, I apologize I had a bubble in my brain and I was in a bad mood. Don't forget, I haven't seen the movie yet (Alien Romulus) but I heard about the 15 minute ending with the new monster thing ... I immediately thought of Alien Resurrection ... misery ... not again ... (who liked Alien Resurrection tell me, no one liked it ... maybe some elements are okay and Sigourney is always perfect but that's it ...).

I like your idea of ​​tier.1 (untouchable and memorable movies) and tier.2 and more (take what we like, don't have too much expectations, love what we like, let go of unpleasant things, the goal is to have good entertainment while keeping a positive mind ...).

It's an excellent philosophy ... tier.1 and tier.2 ... a very good concept my friend.

I think I have too high expectations for all Alien products (always looking for my "Classic Coke" Alien 1979, an Alien Isolation movie would be great).

Thanks,
Arthur.

ExileInParadise ... I'm coming back to the "inventing new monsters in each new Alien movie" aspect that I talked about earlier.

p.s. This is still my opinion and we all have different tastes and it's okay if you don't agree with me.

Well here's the good and the bad ...

the bad ... the "new" monster at the end of Alien Resurrection ... it's ridiculous as a design and visual ... it doesn't work ... the special effects are bad when the monster disintegrates in space ... the interaction with Ripley is not very interesting ... yes this one is cooked.

the good ... the new xenomorph in Alien 3 ... from a dog (or a cow depending on the final cut montage) ... it's very interesting ... smaller ... faster ... it's still a xenomorph in design but something new at the same time (clever idea) ... the neomorphs from Alien Covenant and the abominations from Prometheus are excellent too, they keep the shape of the xenomorphs and it doesn't fall into wacky eccentric creations ... these are not cooked at all (I disagree with Ridley Scott's opinion on this ... a good exemple would be the success of Alien Isolation game ... xenomorph are not cooked at all).

It remains a (my) point of view.
Arthur.

More clarification - when I watch Resurrection - I turn it *off* right after Call, Johnner, and DiStephano shoot the heck out of Purvis' chestburster.
I just chop off the end - better movie that way. No "newborn" birth, etc etc etc.

In my opinion, Romulus *redeems* that with its ending with a nice homage to the ALIEN RPG (again my opinion/interpretation).

What do I mean? See it for yourself and tell me if you've seen something like that ending somewhere else?

... and if they hadn't gone with Laine Liska's rod puppetry, the Runner in Alien3 could have been .. much ... worse. As in "dog in a costume" worse.

In a more general sense - the real value of Prometheus to the entire franchise was introducing the black "omni-excuse" goo - now any director can go in whatever direction they like, blame it on the black goo, and if it doesn't work out - that experiment is never to be seen again.

It does unblock / open up a bit of the universe for expansion options if nothing else.

Next up - we see what ALIEN: EARTH tries to do with it.

EDIT:
"who likes Alien Resurrection?"
Well, once I figured out you can just skip the end after the fly away and deal with Purvis - I find it a much better movie.
Can I name 10 good things about Alien Resurrection otherwise? Easily.
So, it's in the rotation with the rest I just nope out the end and move on.

Coincidentally, I am the same way about another Dan O'Bannon related movie called Screamers.
Chop off a bit of the end - and its a much more palatable movie. Not better really, but at least not destroyed at the end.
I think of it as taking the ride without the crash at the end.

ExileInParadise ... yes watching Alien Resurrection with Tier.2 eyes ... it's the best way to stay happy and neutral with the work ... take what you like and throw away what doesn't and most of all ... enjoy the entertainment.

I'll keep your Tier.1 and Tier.2 system in mind my friend. Don't worry too much, like I said ... I had a bubble in my brain that day and I have very high expectations for the Alien product (movies and RPG), I just have to lower my expectations.

Arthur.

It is my very strong opinion that we must not let peoples on the internet decide what to watch or how to feel about the things we do watch. They, (the peoples on the internet), are terrible, tragic people who tries their very, very best to hate what they actually love. Not good.

That said, here's one people off the internet giving an opinion:
Alien: Romulus is a good movie, very possibly a great one. (I've only seen it once thus far, and I usually need a few viewings to "land" my opinion properly).

It does echo/reference every other Alien franchise movie, but it does so very skillfully and with crazy amounts of love. It also adds a ton of new ideas and interpretations into the mix, and employ some established concepts in (IMHO) brilliant new ways, too.

The Alien: Resurrection thing we're talking about? Yeah, Alien: Romulus just might go a long way towards redeeming that film. (Not that I have any need to rewatch Alien: Resurrection again anytime soon). Alien: Romulus takes one major concept off of that movie and does it in a FAR superior way. (For the record, this is one of my least favorite parts of Alien: Romulus, but nonetheless, I have to admit that it works pretty well).

IMHO, you have to be a very cynical and self-loathing Alien franchise fan to force yourself to hate Alien: Romulus.


Finally, what ExileInParadise said.

That's right Angelman, sorry shadow-arthur was in charge when I wrote these posts. We have an obligation to stay positive and send a positive message when we are on social media.

Positive-arthur is back. Sorry everyone.

Arthur.