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Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sat 29 Jun 2024, 18:55
by Quorlox
How does one determine the chance of a magic mishap when casting a Bound spell using the object?

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sat 29 Jun 2024, 19:24
by Fenhorn
How does one determine the chance of a magic mishap when casting a Bound spell using the object?
It is determined when the magic is bound, based on the mage's dice roll. There is no mishap for using magic bound with this spell.

For example, a Healer wants to create a healing potion. He cast the spell 'Healing Hands' to Power Level 2. To this he must add WP for the 'Bind Magic' spell. He decides to spend 2 WP, so the magic is bound until used. This will cost him 4 WP total, although two of the WPs doesn't add PLs to 'Healing Hands' (they are 'Bind Magic' PLs), so roll them separately just in case, anyone overcharges. The trigger for this is when someone drink it and since it was a PL1-2 'Bind Magic' item, there is no additional WP cost for using it.

For the 'Bind Magic' PL5 version, there is a WP cost for using the artifact, but that is not spellcasting, that is for using the item, the spell has already been cast (when the item was created).

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sat 29 Jun 2024, 19:43
by Quorlox
That was very clear; thanks!

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sun 30 Jun 2024, 05:11
by Ominovin
How does one determine the chance of a magic mishap when casting a Bound spell using the object?
It is determined when the magic is bound, based on the mage's dice roll. There is no mishap for using magic bound with this spell.

For example, a Healer wants to create a healing potion. He cast the spell 'Healing Hands' to Power Level 2. To this he must add WP for the 'Bind Magic' spell. He decides to spend 2 WP, so the magic is bound until used. This will cost him 4 WP total, although two of the WPs doesn't add PLs to 'Healing Hands' (they are 'Bind Magic' PLs), so roll them separately just in case, anyone overcharges. The trigger for this is when someone drink it and since it was a PL1-2 'Bind Magic' item, there is no additional WP cost for using it.

For the 'Bind Magic' PL5 version, there is a WP cost for using the artifact, but that is not spellcasting, that is for using the item, the spell has already been cast (when the item was created).
The 'healing potion' in your example technically doesn't work, as the 'Healing Hands' spell can't heal the 'caster' who would be the activator of the item. It would only work if the person who activated the potion then poured it down someone else's throat...

New Question:
If you create a 'one use per day' item with Bind Magic, do you have the option to decline any Overcharge from the dice roll? Since the cost to activate such an item is based on its Power Level, a 'good' roll might result in an item that is more costly to activate than intended...

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sun 30 Jun 2024, 09:18
by Fenhorn
The 'healing potion' in your example technically doesn't work, as the 'Healing Hands' spell can't heal the 'caster' who would be the activator of the item. It would only work if the person who activated the potion then poured it down someone else's throat...
The spell is cast when the item is created (and by that, WP was spent on it), the spell effects then is bound for later use. This means that the creator of the magic trinket with Healing Hands, can't use it himself, since he is the one that cast it, but anyone else can. Bind Magic (PL1-2 version) just delays the effect of the spell for later use. There is more that can be said about this that could add another layer to this, but I skip that for now. Technically if we see it from a rule point of view, it is written this way to stop the spender of the WP to heal himself. I remember this was debated back in the days, during the beta-phase, but I don't remember why it ended up this way (I do remember it was changed though).
But sure, it is up to each GM to interpret this how he wants.

New Question:
If you create a 'one use per day' item with Bind Magic, do you have the option to decline any Overcharge from the dice roll? Since the cost to activate such an item is based on its Power Level, a 'good' roll might result in an item that is more costly to activate than intended...
Magic is wild in this game and is a bit uncontrollable. Overcharge and mishap is what make magic wild. The solution is to use safe casting.

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sun 11 Aug 2024, 20:32
by Ominovin
Okay, I'm trying to figure out "Baby's First Magic Item" and here is what I am coming up with:

OBJECTIVE: Create a '1 use with no duration limitation' healing item as safely as possible.
RELEVANT DETAILS: Creator is a half-elf Druid with Rank 3 in the Path of Healing who has never cast BIND MAGIC before (and therefore does not have the spell in her Grimoire yet).

Specific Steps:
  • Cast BIND MAGIC, which costs 1 WP. Since this spell does not actually scale with Power Level, we are going to waive the PSYCHIC POWER kin talent bonus and the ingredient. Since we do not have this Rank 3 spell in our Grimoire yet, we can not avoid the 1 die casting roll at this point.
  • Cast HEALING HANDS as the spell to be bound. Willpower expenditure is the baseline 1 WP plus 2 WP to bind the spell until it is used, and we are going to add the ingredient in for the additional Power Level. With the PSYCHIC POWER bonus taken into consideration, we are spending 2 WP and rolling three dice (one 'normal' die and two 'mishap only' dice). As we do have this spell in our Grimiore, we can reduce the casting die pool by 3 dice, bringing it down to a 'no roll' cast of a PL2 spell.
Final 'cost' is WP x3 and a 1 die casting roll (which we can avoid for future items by adding BIND MAGIC to our Grimoire now that we have actually cast it once) for a 'permanent' consumable item that heals 2 points of physical damage on someone within Arm's Reach of the user.

Is my reading here correct?

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sun 11 Aug 2024, 22:31
by Quorlox
Another question. Why is the range of Bind Magic "Personal?" That suggests that it can only affect the caster, which makes little sense given the spell's purpose.

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Mon 12 Aug 2024, 09:57
by Dizzyfugu
It just means that the process of embedding magic into an object must be done manually be the caster, so that it has no range. This also means that you cannot use somebody else's crafting skills to do/support the job. That range also does not affect the embedded spell, it's a totally different matter in the course of the procedure.

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Thu 15 Aug 2024, 04:19
by Ominovin
Okay, I think I understand this all a little better now.

I would suggest some clearer terminology:
  1. FUSION SPELL: A spell like OBSCURE MAGIC or BIND MAGIC that is cast in combination with another spell.
  2. BASE SPELL: The spell your FUSION SPELL is being added to.
  3. FUSED SPELL: The final 'combined' spell

So, my "Baby's First Magic Item" from a few posts back should actually be:
  1. Gather some Clay and a Quill as Ingredients
  2. Ready my GRIMOIRE of HEALING HANDS
  3. BASE SPELL: Spend WPx1 (plus the PSYCHIC POWER bonus WP) plus the Clay Ingredient to create a Rank 0 PL3 HEALING HANDS effect.
  4. FUSION SPELL: Spend WPx1 plus the Quill Ingredient* to BIND MAGIC the BASE SPELL to an item until used
  5. FUSED SPELL Effect: In total, spend WPx2, one lump of clay, and one quill to create an consumable item that will heal up to three points of physical damage when activated.
  6. FUSED SPELL Roll: This should require a three die casting roll (Two for the BASE SPELL and One for the FUSION SPELL), but since the BASE SPELL is effectively Rank 0 we can reduce the casting pool by three dice by Safe-Casting, eliminating the need to roll at all and insuring no mishaps.
Does this all look correct?

*Honestly, using an ingredient to replace one of the WP you need to spend for BIND MAGIC doesn't seem quite right, but that was literally the starting point of this entire thread...

Re: Bind magic question

Posted: Sat 31 Aug 2024, 23:34
by Ominovin
So, coming back to this topic, what sort of magic items should be 'common' for a Druid or Sorcerer to make?

First off, we will make the following assumptions:
BASE SPELL
  • This spell is in your Grimoire,
  • It has a 'generic' ingredient that you possess (i.e., not something that needs to be specific to a particular target), and
  • You have rank 3 in the appropriate casting talent for this spell (which matters for safe-casting calculations).
BIND MAGIC
  • You have one of the ingredients,
  • You can apply the ingredients for both the BASE SPELL and BIND MAGIC, and
  • You want to make a 'one use consumable' item without a 1 day time limit.

By my calculations, with full usage of your Grimoire, Ingredients, and Safe-Casting you should be able to safely Bind:
  • A Rank 1 Spell at Power Level 3 (WPx2 plus the ingredient for the BASE SPELL, WPx1 plus the ingredient for the BIND MAGIC, and a three die casting pool that is eliminated through safe-casting an effective 'Rank 0' spell), or
  • A Rank 2 Spell at Power Level 2 (WPx1 plus the ingredient for the BASE SPELL, WPx1 plus the ingredient for the BIND MAGIC, and a two die casting pool that is eliminated through safe-casting an effective 'Rank 1' spell)
Binding a Rank 3 spell will always involve some degree of risk as you can not eliminate the entire casting dice pool thru safe-casting.