SgtFrosty
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Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Sun 25 May 2025, 18:56

The M41AE2 is described in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, Brimmicombe-wood, as a Light Support Weapon (LSW). The E2 is similar to the M41A except the grenade launcher is removed, a replaceable barrel, an elongated shroud with bipod, and an optional “L” feed magazine.
We have been describing the E2 wrong as a Heavy Pulse Rifle. Calling it Heavy has given some misconceptions with weight, range, and caliber.
Weight and by consequence bulk: By describing the pulse rifle as Heavy we as conceptualizers have come to the conclusion that the M41AE2 has gained size and weight despite the initial origin description says the firearm should be arguably the same weight and is longer by 3 in or 8cm. An example, a Colt M4 with a M203 mounted on it is 10.5 lbs. or 4.76 kg. Where a Colt M16, a longer rifle of the same family as the M4, with a heavy barrel (HBAR) and a bipod (XM3) would be 10.34 lbs. or 4.67kg as well while being 6in or 15cm longer than its M4 counterpart. Height and width differences between an M4/M203 and a M16 are marginally different. Although, the example above shows that two weapons of the same family with different barrel configuration and attachments are roughly the same weight I would argue that the ammunition source would cause the LSW variant to have more weight and bulk due to the enlarged ammunition magazine, Ex. Compare a 30rd STANAG to a common LSW M249 100rd or 200rd drum.
Range: The E2 has a 3” or 8cm longer barrel according to the TM (Technical Manual). Using current day technology that barrel length has marginal difference in effective range. An example, a M16A2, 20” barrel has a max effective range of 550 meters with a SS109 (62gr 5.56 NATO, aka M855) and a M4 14.5” Barrel has a max effective range of 500 meters with SS109. While 50 meters is significant it’s not the difference between the RPG’s Long and Extreme ranges. In 1st ed. Long is described as a distance of 4 zones (100m), Extreme is 1000m. Evolved edition Long is 4 zones, Extreme is anything more than 4 zones.
Caliber: When someone says Heavy when they’re describing a firearm it’s a common misconception to assume it’s a BIG BULLET coming out of it. E2 is described in the TM as being similar to the M41A, which would mean it would still be shooting the M309 10x24mm Caseless. In most current day firearms a military weapon family will share the same caliber round.

In conclusion, I propose that we:
1. Nomenclature: drop “Heavy Pulse Rifle” and adopt either “M41AE2 Light Support Weapon” or “M41AE2 Automatic Rifle”.
2. Range: both the M41A and the M41AE2 share the same range value or at a minimum the same max range value.
M41A being S/L and the M41AE2 being the same or M/L.
3. Damage: both the M41A and M41AE2 should share the same damage value
4. Weight: the weight of the M41AE2 should be only a ¼ slot more than the M41A due to the ammunition being heavier, Reloads should also take up more space.
**A fun flavor idea is that the M41A and M41AE2 could share the M41As reloads but a M41A cannot share the M41AE2s larger reloads. This would represent that the M41A has a “U” feed system and the M41AE2 has an optional “L” feed system. This is based if an interpretation of mine that a “U” feed is an underfed magazine and an “L” feed represents a Left-hand feed magazine. A weapon that has a similar set up would be the M249 SAW, being able to feed both from belt or a STANAG magazine.
5. Change the art for the M41AE2. I propose using a L86 barrel shroud and a M60 Bipod/Flash Hider/ and Front sight, with a Stoner 63’s Handguard (shortened) behind the bipod (when folded up). I chose those firearms because they have that space age look, and are from the 80’s or prior and would fit within the cassette futurism.



Other observations:
-Aliens: Dark Descent: M41AE3’s description does not claim a caliber change but uses similar verbiage as the TM is describing the intent of the weapon. I interpret that the upgrade from E2 to E3 is the removal of the U feed system to reduce jamming (Like how on a M249 the magazine feed is notorious to cause jams)
-Alien: Sea of Sorrows: a mercenary in the book is described as using a .50 caliber pulse rifle as a M41D.
-Aliens: Fire team Elite: Introduces a M41AE4 version, a 12.7mm variant.
-The M41 Pulse rifle family is similar to the L85/L86, the Colt M16/Colt 16 LMG, and especially the Stoner 63 family. It’s very similar to the Stoner 63, the Stoner had an initial variant that had to get improved resulting in the “A” being added, same as the M41, the Stoner also has automatic rifle (LSW) and light machine gun (LMG) variants like the M41A and M41AE2 does.
**Another conclusion: I propose that the heavy in the nomenclature be used for these .50cal/12.7mm variants, similar to how the FNH SCAR –L (5.56) and H (7.62) variants. Making the AFTE M41AE4 actually a M41DE4. Concluding that the “A” sub-family is the 10mm variants and the “D” Sub-family be the 12.7mm variants.
"C'mon Frosty this is crazy.." - Jones
"I'll take what I can get." -Harrison
 
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Toll
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Tue 27 May 2025, 16:31

The art also still has a grenade launcher on it and that bothered me too.

I actually mocked up a variant that I thought looked better.
Image


I think "heavy" was a bid to sell that it's like a support weapon. I do like the idea that it'd be a greater caliber or payload, but this is not reflected in the stats. (Unless you consider that it has better range. That could be related to projectile charge and barrel length.)

Not sure what they're allowed to "rename" since it's not their IP. I'm gonna mod the hell out of it for my games, though.
-KT
 
Lurker01
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon 13 Jul 2020, 22:42

Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Thu 29 May 2025, 21:53

Very nice. Looks a lot less like the Weyland Storm Rifle now. Just needs a bipod and a 295 round ammunition count.
 
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Toll
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 02:09

Very nice. Looks a lot less like the Weyland Storm Rifle now. Just needs a bipod and a 295 round ammunition count.
I actually picture the bottom of the handguard folding down into a bipod (like an M60), and the ammo counter is set to 000, but I wanted that to imply that depending on the equipped magazine/box type-- That it'd read up to 300 or whatever.

I've got to figure out how to make the PDF's lose less resolution in GIMP, but when I do I want to go through and tweak a lot of these to my liking. If I do, I'll share them. I intend on having some custom items and some "hero" types as well.
-KT
 
Professor Phobos
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 02:21

While we're on the subject, I don't know if M/E makes sense rather than S/E for this weapon. If the Smartgun, which is if anything, much more awkward, is S/E...?

Honestly, unless it has an arming distance like a grenade launcher or the RPG, firearms shouldn't get a minimum distance higher than Short.
 
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Toll
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 05:01

While we're on the subject, I don't know if M/E makes sense rather than S/E for this weapon. If the Smartgun, which is if anything, much more awkward, is S/E...?

Honestly, unless it has an arming distance like a grenade launcher or the RPG, firearms shouldn't get a minimum distance higher than Short.
I'd wondered about that too, but then I imagine a longer barrel and finicky optic might make engagement in close quarters difficult.
-KT
 
Professor Phobos
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 09:54

Yeah, but that’s why long arms get a penalty at Adjacent, which is fine and gives Close Combat a reason to shine. But even short range can mean quite a few meters between shooter and target, so it’s hard to envision a gun being that awkward.
 
SgtFrosty
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 20:08

I think "heavy" was a bid to sell that it's like a support weapon. I do like the idea that it'd be a greater caliber or payload, but this is not reflected in the stats. (Unless you consider that it has better range. That could be related to projectile charge and barrel length.)

Not sure what they're allowed to "rename" since it's not their IP. I'm gonna mod the hell out of it for my games, though.
I agree that I think they used "Heavy" to denote that, but I think SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) or LSW (Light Support Weapon) are used enough in video games etc. to also be recognized.

I think in this circumstance they could change the name. In the TM where the M41AE2 is first mentioned there is no mention of "heavy" and the first chronological example I've seen using heavy is the Core rulebook v1.


I think the M range minimum makes sense from my experience using a M249 in CQB, it's not that easy as a standard rifle due to its bulk.
"C'mon Frosty this is crazy.." - Jones
"I'll take what I can get." -Harrison
 
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Toll
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Re: Discussion: We've been going about the M41AE2 wrong.

Fri 30 May 2025, 23:08

I agree that I think they used "Heavy" to denote that, but I think SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) or LSW (Light Support Weapon) are used enough in video games etc. to also be recognized.

I think in this circumstance they could change the name. In the TM where the M41AE2 is first mentioned there is no mention of "heavy" and the first chronological example I've seen using heavy is the Core rulebook v1.


I think the M range minimum makes sense from my experience using a M249 in CQB, it's not that easy as a standard rifle due to its bulk.
You know I busted out my TM and you're not kidding. They even reference it as an LSW.

I bet slinging that heavy MF wasn't fun to carry, but fun to shoot!
-KT

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