Helmaer
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart v1.1

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 05:19

The Dodge and Block mechanics seem harsh (must have action, declare before enemy attacks and then lose entire action regardless of outcome). However, I will acknowledge that it is difficult to judge without access to the talents available - if there are talents that improve the block/dodge action and/or action economy, then I see them rapidly becoming essentials stapled to most, if not all, character sheets.

Query. Under the Physical Critical Injuries Table (61) Broken Neck has no Time Limit, but the effects state; 'If no first aid action with LOGIC roll is made in time, the effect is permanent.' Does this mean no first aid within the 2d6 recovery time (then this needs to be clarified) or should Broken Neck be a potentially Lethal injury (reasonable) with a Time Limit?
 
Original AJ
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 12:06

I like the single action, but would prefer blocking to be called defending (because in armed combat when you defend yourself it's more often a deflection than a block) and to work like Bladerunner in that if the defender gets more successes they can do damage, as this reflects the way a skilled fighter will wait for their opponent to commit to an attack, ensure it doesn't hit them then counterattack while the enemy is recovering. It still allows for waiting until all enemies have taken their actions and attacking safely then if you have not been attacked.
This would address the problem some people seem to have with the fact that being prepared to defend yourself against an attack requires attention and prevents you from attacking directly yourself while retaining that realism. Given that the feel of the game is not "invincible heroes triumphing against the odds" I think it it appropriate that such hard choices need to be made. Perhaps the full rules will include an introduction to the conflict section expressly stating that this game (like all YZE games I have played) are more about careful risk management rather than gung ho reckless action and that combat is a last resort to be avoided where possible, not a preferred solution.
I'm wondering if the desire to be able to constantly attack derives from being used to more heroic systems which put less emphasis on defence actions and more on attack actions by allowing characters to be hit a number of times before they are at risk of going down? In particular, the sorts of systems which use increasing ability to take damage to model improved defence rather than increased ability to avoid attacks. In that type of game you want to be acting first, while the single action reflects the more realistic acting after you know what your opponents have commited to.
 
timgray101
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 13:09

Defence ramblings -

Burning an action on spec is a particularly offputting proposition when you only have one action per turn. (Though it's yet to be clarified whether a basic move is a free action. I think it is.) What players dislike most is loss of agency, so they want to be able to do something useful even if it's minor.

(Edit: ah, move plus one action was always in there and I missed it. Oops, sorry.)

That also connects with completely random initiative - though I suppose PCs are meant to swap to give each other opportunities.

You could go the traditional design route of making defences free, and all attack/defence opposed rolls so you're looking at number of successes. If not, what's the narrative physics reason? (There may well be one, but it's important to check in with it.)

The only version of dodge being hurling yourself to the ground seems to be a little extreme.

(Though it would be entirely sensible to say combat in suits is clumsier with more restricted actions.)
Last edited by timgray101 on Fri 29 Mar 2024, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
 
Anung
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 13:32

Welp, imma add to the Block/Dodge discourse and say it looks great!

I would change, for clarity, in the bit for Extra Successes that those extra successes specifically apply for Blocking and maybe add a sentence or two for extra successes for attacking in the attack section similar to stunts in Alien. Seems including both under Blocking has caused some confusion.

So, for everyone else; blocking does not burn your action for nothing. Blocking is only against other humanoids, Dodge is what you use against humanoids or creatures to get a much higher chance of avoiding damage. A one-action combat economy also makes rounds fly by much faster than before in YZE games (or games that shall not be named where one round can take 10 minutes), this i have learned from playing DB for a few months now. Nobody is going to be bored with these combats or feel like their action is wasted when just one hit can be instant death.
Anyway, Blocking goes like this;

1, Attacker in close combat attacks PC, PC declares block before attacker rolls. Results in either;
2a, Attacker rolls 1 or more successes, PC rolls 1 or more successes, deal with as per rules.
2b, Attacker rolls 1 or more successes, PC rolls 0 successes. PC takes damage, deal with as per rules.
2c, Attacker rolls no successes, PC rolls 1 or more successes, PC can attempt any of the three listed effects which essentially gives them an action out of turn order.

Also this kind of action economy heavily favors working together as a group, which is a Coriolis staple. I think thats pretty neat :)

Oh and the much nicer critical damage table is now too nice!
 
Ugglefar
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 18:26

The rules:
  • Firstly, I must say that I love that you have used so many mechanics from Dragonbane. I prefer it over the old 3 points system.
  • I prefer the blocking/dodging system that you have in Dragonbane than some of the other proposed versions.
  • I think it can be clearer if you use up supplies per party member, or per team.
The adventure:
  • Could you add a scanner map without the blight? In case only the first scan is successful.
 
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Kaybe
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 18:32

On Quickstart v1.1 Critical Hits:

While I agree that the previous edition was maybe a touch too lethal, I find the new one is not lethal enough. While I am grateful that there's less in the way of instant kills, they've not only greatly reduced the number of potential lethal crits ... but they've also made it so all crits are lethal after a shift. Gone are crits that can kill in a round or a stretch. It's all shifts. Get your leg blown off and are spewing blood from major arteries? No problem, you got 6 hours worth of blood in you!

I'm actually wondering if there's a typo as the Stabilizing rules on page 32 talk about downgrading crit times from round to stretch to shift ... but all the crits are now shifts.

Either way, this makes crits so trivial that there's barely a chance of dying anymore unless someone rolls a 66. The urgency and danger is just ... gone. Given this game is supposed to be dark and fraught with risk, I feel the new crits no longer suit the theme, know what I mean?

My recommendation: Handle crits like in Vaesen where there's plenty of round or shift based crits, but there is nothing that is insta-kill.

P.S: Thank you for fixing the Doctor talent. Makes much more sense now.
 
RedSirus
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 22:14

On Quickstart v1.1 Critical Hits:

While I agree that the previous edition was maybe a touch too lethal, I find the new one is not lethal enough. While I am grateful that there's less in the way of instant kills, they've not only greatly reduced the number of potential lethal crits ... but they've also made it so all crits are lethal after a shift. Gone are crits that can kill in a round or a stretch. It's all shifts. Get your leg blown off and are spewing blood from major arteries? No problem, you got 6 hours worth of blood in you!

I'm actually wondering if there's a typo as the Stabilizing rules on page 32 talk about downgrading crit times from round to stretch to shift ... but all the crits are now shifts.

Either way, this makes crits so trivial that there's barely a chance of dying anymore unless someone rolls a 66. The urgency and danger is just ... gone. Given this game is supposed to be dark and fraught with risk, I feel the new crits no longer suit the theme, know what I mean?

My recommendation: Handle crits like in Vaesen where there's plenty of round or shift based crits, but there is nothing that is insta-kill.

P.S: Thank you for fixing the Doctor talent. Makes much more sense now.
Seconded. I really love the new healing mechanic, where each successive check increases the "lethal time" of the injury until succeeding on a "Shift"-level injury saves the patient for good. I have to believe the new table is just in error, giving everything "Shift" as a lethal duration. It'll be nice when we have some realistic variety on the table, and I'd love if there were no insta-kills (and even if there is, I can easily house-rule it down to "Round"-level dangers).
 
Ugglefar
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Wed 27 Mar 2024, 23:43

(Moved my post due to wrong place for that particular feedback.)
Last edited by Ugglefar on Thu 28 Mar 2024, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
 
Colgrevance
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Thu 28 Mar 2024, 01:10

As a minor nitpick, I'd prefer the text describing the outpost to match what is shown on the map. In the current Quickstart version (1.1), the canteen is described as an "octagon shaped room" (p. 57) and the observatory is supposedly "placed in the middle of the outpost" (p. 58) - both passages contradict what is depicted on the map on p. 56 and in the Handouts section.
 
Ugglefar
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Thu 28 Mar 2024, 20:08

Equipment
  • Page 80: Hammer and Ice-pick and Grappling Gun. As the rules are now I cannot imagine that you ever would want to use the Grappling Gun instead of the Hammer and Ice-pick for climbing.
  • Page 82: Expandable Shield. I guess you put the shield down on the ground so you can use your firearms while hiding behind it? This could perhaps be clarified more.
  • Page 84: Breach Charge and Bomb have the same Blast Power and Damage. This seems strange since one is described to be used to open doors, whilst the other is used to destroy buildings.

Rules
I just want to reiterate that I think the Movement + 1 Action rule is better than the Fast/Slow actions rule. I think you did a great job with Dragonbane and those rules work well, especially when combat is deadlier than in many other TTRPGs, such as D&D.

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