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So my PC gets lucky, rolling a '9' on the Feat dice and a couple of Tengwars to land two 'special effects' on her opponents. Twirling her sword and buckler enthusiastically, and in the best narrative style, she uses the PIERCE effect to add +1 to her sword thrust and get a Wounding Strike against a Might = 2 troll AND the second effect is employed as a SHIELD THRUST.

The troll of course suffers no loss of Endurance with a SHIELD THRUST: but am I correct in claiming a PROTECTION ROLL because my Tengwar has modified the Feat die into a Wounding Attack? Or do people think that the Wound cannot take place because I have shoved the troll off balance and also out of harm's way?

(I have my Lawyer's hat on today)

I personally would have allowed it. Wounds are not Endurance damage so by the RAW she's fine. Additionally, I would argue that she is good by RAI as well, since it doesn't make a lot of sense to give players options but not allow them to use them.

Furthermore, imo this is a time for GM fiat anyway, so I personally would have just gone with my instinct on it. Opening books at my table is not allowed after we've started.

But I am a huge fiat GM. The rules text is of minimal importance to me after it sets me and the players on the path. Different GM styles see this very differently, and your miles may very.

Ahem... in fixating on the Piercing Blow, you've missed an important requirement for performing a Shield Thrust: If your STRENGTH is greater than the target’s Attribute Level, spend 1 Success icon to knock back your target.

With troll Attribute Levels at 8+ (IIRC), I don't think your buckler will have much effect against that Troll, but other LMs may be more narratively generous.

Oh! Good catch, I missed that. Yea. I would have allowed it but probably not again in the future ... assuming it had come to my attention not being on this forum.

A Cave Troll Slinker could qualify comfortably, and a Great Orc Bodyguard if you had Strength 6 and added Prowess on Character gen. (unlikely but still well inside all variations) as well as two Dwarf variants of course.

But TBF I hadn't considered that it might not be physically possible when I posted the original.

Resurrecting this thread, in a situation where I score a Piercing blow and am able to inflict Shield Thrust, would we rule that the 1d penalty applies to the Protection Roll against the Piercing Blow?

Resurrecting this thread, in a situation where I score a Piercing blow and am able to inflict Shield Thrust, would we rule that the 1d penalty applies to the Protection Roll against the Piercing Blow?

Yes, I would apply the penalty. Shield thrust doesn’t say anything about the penalty only applying to attacks.

Thanks Harlath, it wasn't so much about whether it applied to other rolls, it was more the order in which things happened.

For instance you could interpret it as

Option 1
Shield bash takes effect
Piercing blow forces Protection Roll

Or

Option 2
Piercing Blow forces Protection Roll
Shield bash now takes effect

With situations like Weary this is explicitly called out in the rules.

Personally I'd pick option 1 because fights are hard enough in this game

Ah, I see. I'd have the penalty applied before any protection test, consistent with the pierce special damage option being applied before checking for protection tests.

p98's order supports this too:

"A successful attack roll inflicts damage on its target in the form of an Endurance Loss based on the weapon used, and may inflict additional Special Damage types based on the Quality of Success of the roll. Finally, attacks may cause more long-lasting injuries if a Piercing Blow is scored."

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you!