"Canon" is defined as what's widely considered official or authoritative:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)
It ultimately rests on what's licensed or not because non-canonical works are either fan fiction or derivative, i.e., works derived from what's no longer copyrighted. That means one has to deal with discrepancies, which is what I think is taking place in what you shared.
The problem is that we see those discrepancies even in what's considered canon. For example, for works in Tier I, the prequels reveal that WY knew a lot more about the aliens, but in the first movie, it's implicit that it doesn't know much. It's supposed to know much by the end of the first movie, but it either forgets it across almost six decades or knows about it after almost two decades, as seen in the game, and then forgets about what it knows again by the time the second movie takes place. And if a Twitter account referring to the game is included, can one also included Cameron's points in a sci-fi magazine about the second movie? In the latter, he states that the reason why the company could not find the derelict ship was because the beacon was damaged by volcanic activity. However, according to the game crew members of another ship deactived it.
Meanwhile, WY had to wait for the Nostromo flight recorder, as it either lost all data sent to it by Mother or never received them or Mother failed to send them or didn't want to to send them, while a privately owned ship in the game was able to find it, take the coordinates and visit the derelict ship, before infecting personnel in a company-owned space station. For some reason, the flight recorder was damaged after, and likely all transmissions on what was taking place on the rock and in the station and sent by multiple computers operating in ships and the station were not received by the company. Or they received them and lost them, or the computers chose not to send them.
For Tier II, several of the works state that multiple ships were visiting the derelict ship between the movies, but at least some of them also clarify discrepancies found in the movies themselves. For example, the second movie shows that the board absurdly didn't grant Ripley's request to have the location of the derelict ship investigated even though the accused (which itself is also weird because it's supposed to be only a board of inquiry) has the right to have a full investigation to prove her case. It turns out, according to one report, that the company deleted the coordinates in the flight recorder.
In addition, it was revealed that Nostromo crew members were filing reports and sending messages, like those from Lambert, and that even during the second movie, Burke was doing the same, even though it was implicit that WY was in the dark about the Nostromo or what happened to the colony or the expedition.
Meanwhile, some Tier III works attempt to explain other points in the movies, like the reason why the company has a bio-weapons division and special orders; it's because of what happened in the prequels. That means the company knew more than what it needed about the creatures, and more (like spores and all that), but could not any of them, which is why it waited until it detected the signal from the rock, and then had the Nostromo sent to investigate it.
It turns out that other adventures took place, similar to what happened in the first movie and in the game, and featuring even Ripley, who experiences amnesia so that she could not relate those additional stories to investigators. Meanwhile, just like in the other works, the ship and space station computers in these stories also work in a weird way.
And another work shows that the colony in the second movie, for example, was providing more than enough information to WY about the aliens, but probably not enough, which is why only a squad was sent: WY thought that only a few aliens, maybe two, were involved.
In any event, I think all my points involve the three tiers. The only thing I could remember about the rest of the works was the trilogy game, where in one cut scene it was pointed out that Burke was ordered by the company to secure the organisms for company labs. But that's necessary given works explaining similar in Tier II.
To conclude, the major problem looks like periodic amnesia experienced by WY, as coordinates are found and lost and found again, and computers not working until the third movie, where WY finally knows everything, but only about what happened on board the Sulaco. Or maybe more?
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- ExileInParadise
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Re: What's wrong with the Alien franchise – and how it can be fixed
Unfortunately, in this case what is widely believed according to wikipedia is irrelevant for the Alien, Predator, and Alien vs. Predator franchises.
The link I posted to the canon list from Andrew E.C. Gaska specifically describes what is actually canon, by the person Fox hired to decide and document such according to Fox's franchise guidelines.
Your personal interpretation of what you like in Alien is purely yours.
But what is *officially* Alien or merely Alien-related, or not, was defined which invalidates widespread opinion.
The "canon bible" was defined and that is used by licensed creators to make new material ... not whatever the internet at large wants.
And licensed creators still have to get their creations approved by the franchise owner before release.
While I disagree with many of your conclusions and reasons for coming to them, especially when I've already posted information supporting different conclusions, I fully support you making whatever you will of the Alien 'verse for your games.
Even on points where I agree, like the blatant problem of W-Y failing for a century ... I take the different path of choosing to imagine a counter-faction within the company (sort of like Amanda and Zula in the Isolation era) who act or intervene.
That's not the only reason, but its a tool I can use to explain or demonstrate it to my players.
In a made up universe, all problems you can imagine can also be solved by whatever creative means you also choose to imagine.
If you're trying to drive a specific interpretation of canon, well... we'll just disagree on a lot of those points and no need to discuss them further.
I have the list of canon, and I have a physical copy of *every* piece of media on those lists in Tiers 1 and 2 and a good chunk of Tier 3.
That's what I will draw from for my game so that I can cite sources to my players like I have done here.
If you're truly worried about the mismatches or incongruities - the solution is also on that canon page ... things that your players *might* know from the movies or books that don't match what you present *can be explained as myth/misinformation*
Dear player, have you read Space Beast yourself? Are you sure it said what you think it says?
And you move on with the game - in your role as the guide to help the players tell their stories.
Stick to the cite-able references you have for "facts" and anything else can be handwaved as rumor or red herring.
And even the facts you have ... may not all be as true as you imagine.
What color *was* the name of the Sulaco?
The link I posted to the canon list from Andrew E.C. Gaska specifically describes what is actually canon, by the person Fox hired to decide and document such according to Fox's franchise guidelines.
Your personal interpretation of what you like in Alien is purely yours.
But what is *officially* Alien or merely Alien-related, or not, was defined which invalidates widespread opinion.
The "canon bible" was defined and that is used by licensed creators to make new material ... not whatever the internet at large wants.
And licensed creators still have to get their creations approved by the franchise owner before release.
While I disagree with many of your conclusions and reasons for coming to them, especially when I've already posted information supporting different conclusions, I fully support you making whatever you will of the Alien 'verse for your games.
Even on points where I agree, like the blatant problem of W-Y failing for a century ... I take the different path of choosing to imagine a counter-faction within the company (sort of like Amanda and Zula in the Isolation era) who act or intervene.
That's not the only reason, but its a tool I can use to explain or demonstrate it to my players.
In a made up universe, all problems you can imagine can also be solved by whatever creative means you also choose to imagine.
If you're trying to drive a specific interpretation of canon, well... we'll just disagree on a lot of those points and no need to discuss them further.
I have the list of canon, and I have a physical copy of *every* piece of media on those lists in Tiers 1 and 2 and a good chunk of Tier 3.
That's what I will draw from for my game so that I can cite sources to my players like I have done here.
If you're truly worried about the mismatches or incongruities - the solution is also on that canon page ... things that your players *might* know from the movies or books that don't match what you present *can be explained as myth/misinformation*
Dear player, have you read Space Beast yourself? Are you sure it said what you think it says?
And you move on with the game - in your role as the guide to help the players tell their stories.
Stick to the cite-able references you have for "facts" and anything else can be handwaved as rumor or red herring.
And even the facts you have ... may not all be as true as you imagine.
What color *was* the name of the Sulaco?
We live, as we dream -- alone. ~ Joseph Conrad
Re: What's wrong with the Alien franchise – and how it can be fixed
Wikipedia uses references. In this case, it's the OED. Other sources have similar definitions:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/canon
I don't see why a personal blog would be considered part of company guidelines, especially given the point that what was licensed broke the guidelines. And it doesn't help when what I think is wrong with the franchise is already found in the first two tiers and involve major issues with corporate and military amnesia or incompetence and the opposite. The main causes include inclusions of similar adventure before the first movie and between the first two movies, like Ripley with another set of company employees or Amanda with similar, or colonists escaping to another place and experiencing similar, and so on. They make the rest of the issues, like changes in the tech from the prequels to the first movie, and the presence and/or absence of energy weapons, look minor.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/canon
I don't see why a personal blog would be considered part of company guidelines, especially given the point that what was licensed broke the guidelines. And it doesn't help when what I think is wrong with the franchise is already found in the first two tiers and involve major issues with corporate and military amnesia or incompetence and the opposite. The main causes include inclusions of similar adventure before the first movie and between the first two movies, like Ripley with another set of company employees or Amanda with similar, or colonists escaping to another place and experiencing similar, and so on. They make the rest of the issues, like changes in the tech from the prequels to the first movie, and the presence and/or absence of energy weapons, look minor.
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- ExileInParadise
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Re: What's wrong with the Alien franchise – and how it can be fixed
It seems you read roguereviewer's page - which literally described being hired to define canon by the people who own it.
If you can't see how that applies as the definition - regardless of inconsistences or not which exist even between the original movie and its first sequel - then there's nothing I can do or say that will make it make sense.
Everything you're describing best falls in the area of "head canon" (what you want to accept as things) vs. actual canon - which is what is officially designated by the folks who created or owned something.
Yes there are inconsistencies - many of those are "pre-existing conditions" that the franchise canon judge simply had to accept.
So - whatever you want canon to be is still irrelevant - canon just is what it is - and its better than we've had for the Alien franchise for decades.
Of particular importance to me is the seperation of Predator and Alien vs. Predator into their own things and that none of those are canon to Alien.
Now the real stumbling block you seem to have is the inability to accept the fact that inconsistencies exist - and work around them in your game.
That's what I recommended before and still recommend now.
There are plenty of inconsistencies to pick on - but you can also come up with reasonable excuses to make the game work best for you.
I will share one of mine - or others if you can provide a specific question or a numbered list that could be tackled individually rather than going all over the place in the same paragraph (which makes it hard to work with specific points).
ALIEN ISOLATION is canon ... it did such an amazing job capturing the look - including use of original ALIEN movie reference and assets that it deserved to be.
The ALIEN BLUEPRINTS are also canon.
Space Jockey's deckplans for ALIEN BLUEPRINTS are amazing and totally deserved to be classified as canon for the sheer massive amount of research in them (including stage layout diagrams from on-set and more)
But, the deck plans of the Nostromo from ALIEN BLUEPRINTS do not match the deckplans of the Nostromo decks from ALIEN ISOLATION: CREW EXPENDABLE.
Only the bridge map seems consistent ... B and C decks and the shuttles diverge wildly - to the point that Isolation's maps literally have the shuttle pointing backwards from what is seen in the movie.
So, if I want to re-use the Nostromo deckplans for the Montero - what's the approach?
How do I "square" the entirely different maps for the same vehicle as both canon?
Well, I can't really because the discrepancy is what it is and comes long before the ALIEN RPG.
But, I am the GM and I can come up with a seemingly plausible explanation that fits so that it works and doesn't cause problems for my game.
My "patch" for this issue is that both maps are canon even if they are different.
But how can they both be canon?
I consider the ALIEN BLUEPRINTS deckplans the Nostromo as originally designed and built as a lander/surveyor.
And, the ALIEN ISOLATION deckplans are from later in the Nostromo's service after it had been refitted with upgraded engines as a towing vehicle.
So, a little creativity gives me 3 usable ships - original Nostromo, movie Nostromo, and Montero (which was NOT towing rated and so can use the blueprint deckplans)
That's just one example and hopefully that helps illustrate what I was talking about earlier in the thread about "just make up whatever to explain it"
The Traveller RPG from 1977 has a great way to handle all of this which developed over the years: OTU, ATU, and IMTU.
OTU means the Official Traveller Universe as laid out by Marc Miller and others as the canon Traveller setting.
ATU means Alternate Traveller Universe where the Traveller rules and concepts are used for some other setting or version of the OTU which was changed in some major way such as the death of the Emperor in MegaTraveller/New Era.
IMTU means In My Traveller Universe where you and your players have hammered out what parts of Traveller you use and what parts you change and homebrew - such as if you populate Foreven sector or place canon sectors with your own For Reasons(tm).
The same OTU, ATU, IMTU can apply to Alien just as well - heck - Traveller has been used to run Alien games since the 1980s and the appearance of the Reticulan Parasite in JTAS#4.
The ALIEN official universe has been defined.
Alternate ALIEN universe was also defined, starting with the Dark Horse comics and some of the wilder books.
And, you and I both can take all of that and play with it however we like In My Alien Universe.
If you can't see how that applies as the definition - regardless of inconsistences or not which exist even between the original movie and its first sequel - then there's nothing I can do or say that will make it make sense.
Everything you're describing best falls in the area of "head canon" (what you want to accept as things) vs. actual canon - which is what is officially designated by the folks who created or owned something.
Yes there are inconsistencies - many of those are "pre-existing conditions" that the franchise canon judge simply had to accept.
So - whatever you want canon to be is still irrelevant - canon just is what it is - and its better than we've had for the Alien franchise for decades.
Of particular importance to me is the seperation of Predator and Alien vs. Predator into their own things and that none of those are canon to Alien.
Now the real stumbling block you seem to have is the inability to accept the fact that inconsistencies exist - and work around them in your game.
That's what I recommended before and still recommend now.
There are plenty of inconsistencies to pick on - but you can also come up with reasonable excuses to make the game work best for you.
I will share one of mine - or others if you can provide a specific question or a numbered list that could be tackled individually rather than going all over the place in the same paragraph (which makes it hard to work with specific points).
ALIEN ISOLATION is canon ... it did such an amazing job capturing the look - including use of original ALIEN movie reference and assets that it deserved to be.
The ALIEN BLUEPRINTS are also canon.
Space Jockey's deckplans for ALIEN BLUEPRINTS are amazing and totally deserved to be classified as canon for the sheer massive amount of research in them (including stage layout diagrams from on-set and more)
But, the deck plans of the Nostromo from ALIEN BLUEPRINTS do not match the deckplans of the Nostromo decks from ALIEN ISOLATION: CREW EXPENDABLE.
Only the bridge map seems consistent ... B and C decks and the shuttles diverge wildly - to the point that Isolation's maps literally have the shuttle pointing backwards from what is seen in the movie.
So, if I want to re-use the Nostromo deckplans for the Montero - what's the approach?
How do I "square" the entirely different maps for the same vehicle as both canon?
Well, I can't really because the discrepancy is what it is and comes long before the ALIEN RPG.
But, I am the GM and I can come up with a seemingly plausible explanation that fits so that it works and doesn't cause problems for my game.
My "patch" for this issue is that both maps are canon even if they are different.
But how can they both be canon?
I consider the ALIEN BLUEPRINTS deckplans the Nostromo as originally designed and built as a lander/surveyor.
And, the ALIEN ISOLATION deckplans are from later in the Nostromo's service after it had been refitted with upgraded engines as a towing vehicle.
So, a little creativity gives me 3 usable ships - original Nostromo, movie Nostromo, and Montero (which was NOT towing rated and so can use the blueprint deckplans)
That's just one example and hopefully that helps illustrate what I was talking about earlier in the thread about "just make up whatever to explain it"
The Traveller RPG from 1977 has a great way to handle all of this which developed over the years: OTU, ATU, and IMTU.
OTU means the Official Traveller Universe as laid out by Marc Miller and others as the canon Traveller setting.
ATU means Alternate Traveller Universe where the Traveller rules and concepts are used for some other setting or version of the OTU which was changed in some major way such as the death of the Emperor in MegaTraveller/New Era.
IMTU means In My Traveller Universe where you and your players have hammered out what parts of Traveller you use and what parts you change and homebrew - such as if you populate Foreven sector or place canon sectors with your own For Reasons(tm).
The same OTU, ATU, IMTU can apply to Alien just as well - heck - Traveller has been used to run Alien games since the 1980s and the appearance of the Reticulan Parasite in JTAS#4.
The ALIEN official universe has been defined.
Alternate ALIEN universe was also defined, starting with the Dark Horse comics and some of the wilder books.
And, you and I both can take all of that and play with it however we like In My Alien Universe.
We live, as we dream -- alone. ~ Joseph Conrad
Re: What's wrong with the Alien franchise – and how it can be fixed
It describes it by mentioning almost every licensed work. Not only that, it also states that it can only deal with discrepancies by seeing them as myth.
What head-canon? The points I gave come from content from works in Tiers 1 to 3.
Why are you against the need to work around inconsistencies? Isn't that the point of this thread, as seen in the title?
What's the problem with Isolation? One vessel visits the derelict ship, with one of its crew getting facehugged, and bringing the infestation to a space station that's at least partly owned by the same company. Given routine communications between ships, stations, colonies, companies, and even the military, as seen in logs revealed in the W-Y Report and the ACM Manual, the company and even authorities would have known what happened to the Anesidora, the Sevastopol, and even the Torrens, and that involves not only the coordinates to the derelict ship but even reports of facehuggers, aliens, etc.
And yet by the second movie, it appears that both company and government know nothing about that. As pointed out in the film, they had explored over 300 worlds and did not encounter anything similar to what Ripley reported. (Never mind what Arcturians are.)
It's similar with the prequels: after that, it's as if the company knows almost nothing about the aliens, which is why they operate as if in the dark in the first movie. Otherwise, they would have ordered the Nostromo just to verify the existence of the derelict ship but to enter it while guaranteeing the crew full shares, and then send a prepared team to do so.
Similar problems appear for the third movie: if by then they had access to the derelict ship, then the need to obtain the alien and the embryo from the prison would have been irrelevant.
Finally, I don't think my points will affect gaming, but I did at least point out what's wrong with the franchise, and came up with ways to solve them.
Here's one possible fix:
The prequels take place.
New media explain how Weyland-Yutani (W-Y) fails to receive or loses all information about the aliens encountered in the prequels. All they know is that there are aliens and ships. They also set up a bio-weapons division and special orders to monetize any finds. Works like David's drawings are discovered only much later.
They detect a signal from LV-426 and think it might be one of the alien craft. When the Nostromo is docked, they have the science officer replaced with Ash and prepare to have the ship investigate the signal.
When Nostromo is closest to LV-426, Mother detects the signal, wakes up the crew, re-routes the ship based on company instructions (and thus overriding any orders from Dallas, the Nostromo captain), and has the signal decoded partially what little info the company got from the events in the prequels. It's not a distress signal but a warning.
The first movie takes place.
Create new media explaining how W-Y fails to receive or loses all information from Mother, including the coordinates that give the location of the signal.
In the Isolation game, one ship recovers the Nostromo flight recorder and visits the derelict ship. They deactivate the beacon, The rest of the game follows.
Create new media explaining how W-Y loses all information about what happened in the game such that they have to wait to get the coordinates from Ripley's lifeboat flight recorder.
Ripley is rescued by a ship working with others and doing mining on a rock, where they encounter aliens as well. Ripley's memory of the encounter is wiped off, and she is left in cryo-sleep and drifting in space once more.
Create new media explaining how W-Y fails to receive or loses all information about what happened to Ripley in that adventure.
Media explaining what happened to the colony and the second movie takes place. Create new media explaining how W-Y removes the coordinates from the flight recorder to explain why the board does not want to heed Ripley's request and investigate the Nostromo landing site.
Create new media explaining why W-Y sent only one squad of Marines and a warship with no captain and crew. It can point out that the company believed that only two aliens were involved, which is why it sent only one squad. Also, W-Y and certain military officials were colluding and working covertly against the ICC and ECA, which is why it sent a ship that was about to be decommissioned on automatic pilot, and a Marine squad that was supposed to be demobilized.
The rest of the second movie follows.
Create new media showing how the colony is destroyed but the derelict ship is not damaged. Various ships revisit it following the W-Y Report and ACM Manual, but those and the derelict ship are destroyed by volcanic activity caused by the explosion from the colony. This explains why, without anything from the derelict ship, W-Y needs to get the alien and embryo from the prison.
The third movie follows.
What head-canon? The points I gave come from content from works in Tiers 1 to 3.
Why are you against the need to work around inconsistencies? Isn't that the point of this thread, as seen in the title?
What's the problem with Isolation? One vessel visits the derelict ship, with one of its crew getting facehugged, and bringing the infestation to a space station that's at least partly owned by the same company. Given routine communications between ships, stations, colonies, companies, and even the military, as seen in logs revealed in the W-Y Report and the ACM Manual, the company and even authorities would have known what happened to the Anesidora, the Sevastopol, and even the Torrens, and that involves not only the coordinates to the derelict ship but even reports of facehuggers, aliens, etc.
And yet by the second movie, it appears that both company and government know nothing about that. As pointed out in the film, they had explored over 300 worlds and did not encounter anything similar to what Ripley reported. (Never mind what Arcturians are.)
It's similar with the prequels: after that, it's as if the company knows almost nothing about the aliens, which is why they operate as if in the dark in the first movie. Otherwise, they would have ordered the Nostromo just to verify the existence of the derelict ship but to enter it while guaranteeing the crew full shares, and then send a prepared team to do so.
Similar problems appear for the third movie: if by then they had access to the derelict ship, then the need to obtain the alien and the embryo from the prison would have been irrelevant.
Finally, I don't think my points will affect gaming, but I did at least point out what's wrong with the franchise, and came up with ways to solve them.
Here's one possible fix:
The prequels take place.
New media explain how Weyland-Yutani (W-Y) fails to receive or loses all information about the aliens encountered in the prequels. All they know is that there are aliens and ships. They also set up a bio-weapons division and special orders to monetize any finds. Works like David's drawings are discovered only much later.
They detect a signal from LV-426 and think it might be one of the alien craft. When the Nostromo is docked, they have the science officer replaced with Ash and prepare to have the ship investigate the signal.
When Nostromo is closest to LV-426, Mother detects the signal, wakes up the crew, re-routes the ship based on company instructions (and thus overriding any orders from Dallas, the Nostromo captain), and has the signal decoded partially what little info the company got from the events in the prequels. It's not a distress signal but a warning.
The first movie takes place.
Create new media explaining how W-Y fails to receive or loses all information from Mother, including the coordinates that give the location of the signal.
In the Isolation game, one ship recovers the Nostromo flight recorder and visits the derelict ship. They deactivate the beacon, The rest of the game follows.
Create new media explaining how W-Y loses all information about what happened in the game such that they have to wait to get the coordinates from Ripley's lifeboat flight recorder.
Ripley is rescued by a ship working with others and doing mining on a rock, where they encounter aliens as well. Ripley's memory of the encounter is wiped off, and she is left in cryo-sleep and drifting in space once more.
Create new media explaining how W-Y fails to receive or loses all information about what happened to Ripley in that adventure.
Media explaining what happened to the colony and the second movie takes place. Create new media explaining how W-Y removes the coordinates from the flight recorder to explain why the board does not want to heed Ripley's request and investigate the Nostromo landing site.
Create new media explaining why W-Y sent only one squad of Marines and a warship with no captain and crew. It can point out that the company believed that only two aliens were involved, which is why it sent only one squad. Also, W-Y and certain military officials were colluding and working covertly against the ICC and ECA, which is why it sent a ship that was about to be decommissioned on automatic pilot, and a Marine squad that was supposed to be demobilized.
The rest of the second movie follows.
Create new media showing how the colony is destroyed but the derelict ship is not damaged. Various ships revisit it following the W-Y Report and ACM Manual, but those and the derelict ship are destroyed by volcanic activity caused by the explosion from the colony. This explains why, without anything from the derelict ship, W-Y needs to get the alien and embryo from the prison.
The third movie follows.
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