Otaku-sempai
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sat 01 Apr 2023, 21:59

I don't know - I kind of see the Rangers as a people unwilling to allow themselves to be corrupted. They are sworn enemies of Sauron and all he represents. I don't see them as being willing to do anything that would ally them in any way with the shadow that they are fighting. They're saving the Shire from having to live the kind of life you live when orcs are a threat, but for them, I don't think that would mean giving any room for the shadow. Its the hard life in the wild they have to live, endangering their lives, etc., that they're saving the hobbits in the Shire from.
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The Rangers of the North might be resistant to the Shadow by cultural inclination, but they are still fallible Men and would not be incorruptible They can't all be Aragorn even if he represents the ideal..
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Hornbach
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sat 01 Apr 2023, 22:55

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The Rangers of the North might be resistant to the Shadow by cultural inclination, but they are still fallible Men and would not be incorruptible They can't all be Aragorn even if he represents the ideal..
You're absolutely right. I was just responding to an idea that seemed to be saying that it would be kind of a ordinary thing that Rangers would think of themselves as "having to" perform misdeeds in order to effectively fight the shadow.
 
Dunheved
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 02:27

Collecting Shadow Points may even happen when directly opposing Sauron or the Enemy.
It may be an occasion when you must choose between the lesser of two evils. Why didn't Frodo agree to let Faramir execute Gollum at the pool? Did Sam get Shadow Points for even wishing Gollum was shot by Faramir's archers at that point in the story?

Frodo was fated to carry the ring into Mordor. He was overcome by the Shadow in the end, even though he stuck to Gandalf's principles throughout. (I can't remember an occasion when he drew blood with a weapon.* Even in the Moria fight it is only Sam who gets a mention of killing an Orc. And Frodo harms no one in the scouring of the Shire.)

Yes you get Shadow by being/doing evil actions: but you can get it by witnessing such actions too. Even actions that you cannot prevent or avoid. Middle-earth may have beauty, but that is not the only experience. It appears that some people have a narrative that means that they inevitably collect Shadow.

Even Aragorn may have experienced Shadow Points when he could not avoid spurning Eowyn 's appeals.

* He did slice the arm off the barrow Wight. So I guess technically no blood?!
 
DarrenH
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 02:59

If I understand it correctly, you can pretty much slay servants of the enemy at will without committing a Misdeed. No negotiating with orcs or trolls. Torturing them would be a different story.

I was trying to think of an example of a hero from the books deliberately doing something wrong. Bilbo burgled and tricked the elves and Thorin, but he felt bad and tried to make it right as soon as he could. Other than that they all seem squeaky clean. Unless I am forgetting something. They all had Shadow points to one degree or another, but not from wrongful actions.

I don't think players will have a problem with Shadow from Dread, Greed, or Sorcery. It's this Misdeeds business where I expect some pushback. Player agency is touchy.
 
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 03:36

I was trying to think of an example of a hero from the books deliberately doing something wrong. Bilbo burgled and tricked the elves and Thorin, but he felt bad and tried to make it right as soon as he could. Other than that they all seem squeaky clean. Unless I am forgetting something. They all had Shadow points to one degree or another, but not from wrongful actions.
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Well...Boromir. However, it is important to remember that Shadow points often do not come from misdeeds (such as refusing mercy to an opponent who asks for it). Witnessing an act of brutality can be enough to gain Shadow.
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DarrenH
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 04:09


Well...Boromir. However, it is important to remember that Shadow points often do not come from misdeeds (such as refusing mercy to an opponent who asks for it). Witnessing an act of brutality can be enough to gain Shadow.

I didn't count Boromir, or Pippin swiping the Palantir, or Frodo claiming the ring at the last. These seem to me more like Bouts of Madness (in game terms) brought on by corrupting forces outside of themselves. You could argue Boromir was proud and dismissive of wise counsel. But I don't think he would have done what he did without the ring's toxic influence.
 
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HunterGreen
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 14:49

You're absolutely right. I was just responding to an idea that seemed to be saying that it would be kind of a ordinary thing that Rangers would think of themselves as "having to" perform misdeeds in order to effectively fight the shadow.
That explanation was not about doing misdeeds; it was about all the things that one does that wear on the soul, all the things one is exposed to, all the things one must endure.
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Hornbach
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sun 02 Apr 2023, 18:02

You're absolutely right. I was just responding to an idea that seemed to be saying that it would be kind of a ordinary thing that Rangers would think of themselves as "having to" perform misdeeds in order to effectively fight the shadow.
That explanation was not about doing misdeeds; it was about all the things that one does that wear on the soul, all the things one is exposed to, all the things one must endure.
Ah! Well please accept my apologies then. And thank you for clarifying.
 
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Leuwart
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sat 08 Apr 2023, 09:28

Frodo was fated to carry the ring into Mordor. He was overcome by the Shadow in the end, even though he stuck to Gandalf's principles throughout. (I can't remember an occasion when he drew blood with a weapon.* Even in the Moria fight it is only Sam who gets a mention of killing an Orc. And Frodo harms no one in the scouring of the Shire.)

[…]

* He did slice the arm off the barrow Wight. So I guess technically no blood?!
It was Frodo who attacked the troll‘s foot in the Mazarbul fight. And Sting was bloody after that…
 
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Re: Misdeeds, murder and shadow points

Sat 10 Jun 2023, 12:29


It was Frodo who attacked the troll‘s foot in the Mazarbul fight. And Sting was bloody after that…
I knew that would be something: there always is!
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