Raellus
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Called Shots v. Vehicles

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 18:17

The rules are pretty clear on this, but I want to run it by y'all because what they say doesn't seem correct/realistic. Here's the scenario:

The PC machine gunner, operating a vehicle mounted DSHk HMG is shooting at a Zil-131 truck, which is approaching head-on. He wants to put his first burst into the truck's engine block. Aiming for a specific component means this is a Called Shot. So far, so good. Here's where the rules butt up against realism.

Called shots will never penetrate armor. (p.86)

The Zil has front armor of 1. That means a 12.7mm round (Damage 4, Armor 0) can't penetrate the truck's front grill? Huh? A hit, since it can't penetrate at all, can't damage the engine as engine is in the Penetration Damage column of the Component Damage table (p. 84). I'd have to use the result from the No Penetration column instead. In the engine row, the Non Penetration damage result would be "weapon", of which the Zil-131 is equipped with none. There's no way to damage the engage, if the rules are applied as written. Basically, a hit on a Called Shot as described in the scenario, in this instance, produces no damage to the target.

The rules as stated basically nerfs the HMG and buffs a soft-skinned (i.e. unarmored, IRL) truck in the case of a Called Shot.

Am I missing something?

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welsh
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 19:23

Yes, you're missing something. :)

The rule on p.86 specifically refers to called shots against external components, passengers, and stores.

Called shots against internal components of a vehicle don't seem to be allowed for, but if a player wanted to target the engine block of a truck, I would allow that, because its location is obvious from the outside.
 
Raellus
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 22:39

My bad. I swear I read that bit more than once. Don't know how I missed "external" (italicized!). :oops:

Thanks.
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kcdusk
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 23:41

in your example i'd offer the players another option other than a called shot to hit the engine.

I'd have the players roll to hit as normal, but have a slightly different to hit table. If they hit normally (ie not a called shot) i'd have say;
D6 for hit location
1 = tyres
2-4 = engine
5-6 = window/passengers
 
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FatherJ_ct
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Wed 07 Jun 2023, 07:05

The rules are pretty clear on this, but I want to run it by y'all because what they say doesn't seem correct/realistic. Here's the scenario:

The PC machine gunner, operating a vehicle mounted DSHk HMG is shooting at a Zil-131 truck, which is approaching head-on. He wants to put his first burst into the truck's engine block. Aiming for a specific component means this is a Called Shot. So far, so good. Here's where the rules butt up against realism.

Called shots will never penetrate armor. (p.86)

The Zil has front armor of 1. That means a 12.7mm round (Damage 4, Armor 0) can't penetrate the truck's front grill? Huh? ...

Am I missing something?

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I am going to call this "called shots will never penetrate armor" one of the gaps in the rules. You certainly should be able to target the engine block of a truck coming at you. I agree with the earlier comment about the external being italicized meaning that it really should say called shots at external components will never carry over to then penetrating the vehicle.

So I would figure it as Called shot/small target is the -2 for the roll (and I would not grant the +2 for targeting vehicle...since you are not aiming at the vehicle in general but being specific target) [ plus HMG doesn't get the bonus per page 82 "Attacks on vehicles from small arms fire generally get a +2 modifier due to the size of the target. Heavy weapons don’t get this modifier," , plus any movement/terrain type modifiers. The 12.7mm Damage 4 minus the 1 armor means 3 damage penetrates (armor 0 for the 12.7mm just means it is not specifically armor piercing type of round, whereas a -1 weapon negates 1 pt of armor before the damage is calculated).

Though there is an issue with doing a "called shot" using a HMG. Not sure how easy it is to single shot those with great aiming ability. I would argue that dumping ammo dice for an HMG is not a "called shot" and would be resolved normally.
 
Raellus
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Wed 07 Jun 2023, 23:44

So I would figure it as Called shot/small target is the -2 for the roll (and I would not grant the +2 for targeting vehicle...since you are not aiming at the vehicle in general but being specific target) [ plus HMG doesn't get the bonus per page 82 "Attacks on vehicles from small arms fire generally get a +2 modifier due to the size of the target. Heavy weapons don’t get this modifier," , plus any movement/terrain type modifiers. The 12.7mm Damage 4 minus the 1 armor means 3 damage penetrates (armor 0 for the 12.7mm just means it is not specifically armor piercing type of round, whereas a -1 weapon negates 1 pt of armor before the damage is calculated).
That's a good point about not giving the +2 bonus for a large target when the gunner is aiming for a 2'x4' rectangle, not the entire vehicle.
Though there is an issue with doing a "called shot" using a HMG. Not sure how easy it is to single shot those with great aiming ability. I would argue that dumping ammo dice for an HMG is not a "called shot" and would be resolved normally.
I get what you're saying. I'm interpreting "Called Shot" here as aimed at a particular part of the target. I think a skilled MG'er (A STR, B Heavy Weapons, w/ the Machine Gunner specialty) could aim a machine gun at such a target, and try to get either the first few rounds, or adjust the last few (thanks tracers!), into the called target.

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Heffe
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Thu 08 Jun 2023, 22:31

I'd think that the ability to target parts of a vehicle may carry over to other heavy weapons as well. Recently we've seen ATGM troops aiming for particular locations on armor. Even RPGs, though often the range on such weapons prevents the firer from having the time to be able to adequately secure a good firing solution.
 
Argon3
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Re: Called Shots v. Vehicles

Sat 26 Aug 2023, 17:28

GCE
The M2 will do 4 damage to the truck on a hit.
The 0 modifier means that the armor is not raised or lowered against that damage.
So, Armor 1 on Zil reduces hit damage to 3. Then add extra hits as wanted by players and their dice.

As far as hitting the engine I would use a modified hit table similar to the one posted earlier.
1-2 Engine
3-4 Suspension
5-6 Roll once on regular Component Damage Chart, pg 84 Players Manual. (PM)
or if second person in front seat
5-6 Person/Cargo then d6 1-3 Driver 4-6 Passenger. Cargo hit in rear of truck if only one in the front. Could also be a person in the rear.

Your game, your choice

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