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Ferretz
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Vehicle armor

Tue 30 May 2023, 17:00

Hi there,

I ran the first part of the Frontier War campaign some time ago, and as I'm considering picking it up again, I'm taking another hard look at the rules, especially those for vehicle armor.
I hardly ever use house rules, but to me, the way armor on vehicles is represented in the rules is way off the mark if you want it to be somewhat realistic.

The way armor works now, characters with handguns can actually take apart heavy battle tanks if they shoot them enough. Realistically, modern battle tanks are practically impervious to anything but heavy armor-piercing weapons, and in a military-oriented campaign such as this, I feel that should be better reflected. It doesn't matter how much you shoot them if you only have a pistol or a rifle. The best you can hope for is to take out a headlight.

The solution I might try in our game is to have anything with hull points (not starships, as those are on a completely different scale) have each point of Armor automatically reduce damage. Armor is still halved for armor-piercing attacks. This makes such vehicles a lot tougher and more dangerous, forcing characters to use heavier weapons such as RPGs, cannons and other vehicles. It also allow for really good shooters to damage heavier vehicles, representing those weak points and such.

What are your experiences with using armored vehicles in the game? I had the players face some in Destroyer of Worlds, and they were easily picked apart by pulse rifles and smartguns. :shock:
 
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Angelman
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Re: Vehicle armor

Wed 31 May 2023, 23:34

We had a short discussion on this a year ago, here: viewtopic.php?p=72493#p72493

I suggested some simple house-rule mods that you can slot right onto the existing rules with no extra calibration and tweaking; basically, I just play around with the Armor Doubling/Armor Penetration feature to beef up vehicles some. This system works well in my games, at least.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Ferretz
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Re: Vehicle armor

Wed 31 May 2023, 23:39

Interesting. I'll play around with it a bit and test it out. :)
 
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Angelman
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Re: Vehicle armor

Wed 31 May 2023, 23:45

Interesting. I'll play around with it a bit and test it out. :)
Cool :) I found this an easy and quick fix; just drop "Armor Piercing" here and add "Armor Doubling" there to beef/nerf attacks. You can even do it without adhering to a "system" as such, just sliding the Armor Piercing/Doubling "scale" as you see fit during the game.

(Also, ahoyhoy from Norway! ;) I'm in Bergen)
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Ferretz
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Re: Vehicle armor

Wed 31 May 2023, 23:55

Interesting. I'll play around with it a bit and test it out. :)
Cool :) I found this an easy and quick fix; just drop "Armor Piercing" here and add "Armor Doubling" there to beef/nerf attacks. You can even do it without adhering to a "system" as such, just sliding the Armor Piercing/Doubling "scale" as you see fit during the game.

(Also, ahoyhoy from Norway! ;) I'm in Bergen)
Excellent. Ski here, just south of Oslo. :)

As for the armor, I might just test every weapon in the game against various Armor ratings to see what makes sense. I'd prefer one less die pool to roll in the game, to be honest, so having static armor (1 poing of Armor reduces 1 damage) is tempting.
Many RPGs struggle to make armor realistic. One of the worst offenders I've seen is actually the new Warhammer 40,000 rpg Imperium Maledictum. There a character can easily knock out or even kill a character in full power armor with their bare hands, as long as they have the element of surprise. :lol:
 
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Angelman
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Re: Vehicle armor

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 00:03

Excellent. Ski here, just south of Oslo. :)
Yeah, I have been! Was yelled at by an old man for my shoelace being untied... ;)
I'd prefer one less die pool to roll in the game, to be honest, so having static armor (1 poing of Armor reduces 1 damage) is tempting.
Well, that's easy to fix; just drop the roll and go with the average.
A 6AP armor blocks 1 DMG, no need of rolling. With Armor Piercing, this works half the time (=just wing it dramatically). With Armor Doubling stops 2 DMG for 6AP armors.

For weaker armors, just wing it: PCs firing Armor Piercing at a bunch of thugs wearing bulletproof vests? =One thug gets lucky and stops 1 DMG, yay!

The Alien rules almost begs to be tweaked and disregarded on the fly.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Ferretz
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Re: Vehicle armor

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 00:41

Well, then there are examples when the characters attack heavily armored vehicles like the heavy battle tank with armor 12. Realistically, such vehicles can take thousands of rounds or small arms fire without taking any damage. But Smartguns (Damage 3, Bonus +3, Armor Piercing) will quickly chew these to pieces.
But if the Armor removed 12 (or 6 with Armor Piercing) damage straight, things would look bleaker for the poor infantry.

Using this tweak would make vehicles much more formidable, and heavy weapons like RPGs and vehicle-mounted cannons and rockets, which often has a huge Damage bonus, would be much more useful in the game.

But I'll try a few different methods. :)
 
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Angelman
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Re: Vehicle armor

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 00:50

Also, last thing: Never aim for realism in RPGs. Always, always aim for drama.

We are not running real-life warfare encounters (thank the Whills); we are running dramatic stories written to entertain and inform.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Ferretz
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Re: Vehicle armor

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 00:53

Of course, and I agree completely.

However, sometimes the sheer lack of realism breaks the immersion. Things happen in the game that makes the players and GM stop to scratch their heads.

But drama and storytelling are the priority - as long as it is fun, of course. :)
 
HaplessOperator
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Re: Vehicle armor

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 19:06

Also, last thing: Never aim for realism in RPGs. Always, always aim for drama.

We are not running real-life warfare encounters (thank the Whills); we are running dramatic stories written to entertain and inform.
Sure we are. I do, and lots of tables I've run sort of expected this out of anything military sci-fi related. Your table may not want additional realism, but a lot of players do. You can be dramatic and "informative" almost no matter how realistically you depict a given thing, it just takes more effort and you have to be a little quicker on the ball as a GM, and do a little more research on things.

If reality was somehow incompatible with drama or entertainment, I suspect we'd all live significantly more boring lives when we're not at the tabletop.

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