fougerec
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Posts: 61
Joined: Thu 09 Dec 2021, 00:21

Campaign length?

Thu 13 Apr 2023, 19:05

Curious as to how long folks run until characters feel too competent. It's hard to judge since there are no "levels" and there's pretty much always something to spend XP on and yes a lucky hit can still drop a character but at a certain point it gets hard to challenge characters. That is not a slight against the game in any way whatsoever, I'm just curious as to whether or not folks find there's a finiteness to a game or if they tweak things to continue to challenge characters for years to come.
 
Mr Oldtimer
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2019, 12:01

Re: Campaign length?

Fri 14 Apr 2023, 01:22

I ran Raven's Purge for three players, three years of weekly game sessions. One or two character deaths but revived by the druid, so no loss of XP there. Needless to say, they where quite experienced at the end. We even played for months, not bothering with raising talents/skills, just accumulating XP, because my players didn't feel the need to train that often any more. Now, I don't give out a lot of artifacts, magic/master crafted weapons and armor, but of course they managed to find the odd one here and there during the campaign. It worked quite well till the last couple of months of the campaign, much thanks to there being three PCs and without excessive armor, a few good hits will still be a threat. That said, it took some effort to build encounters, with various mixes of ranged/close combat enemies. Also, enemies with talents ups the opposition quite a bit. Don't forget that most monsters can be made much more efficient if they get more than one initiative per round. Or toss a few more monsters in there.
Also, I started to use the environment as a part of encounters, with collapsing ceilings or floors, innocent bystanders in danger and so on. Let the PC fear for other peoples lives if they don't feel threatened themselves. To give bigger monsters, like dragons and manticores more strenght and armor works quite well. Biggest problem I found, was that one of my players is a real min-maxer and the others, not so much. This made it worse for me because I had to balance encounters to challenge the min maxer but at the same time, I didn't want the others to be doomed if he went down. Took some thinking to do right.
Don't forget that if the PCs are too powerful, people will no doubt hear of them and most enemies will try not to fight them but rather sabotage their plans, use subterfuge or manipulation to get to them. Or magic. There are ways to challenge them still. But sure, most often, the combats grew bigger over time, with more and more opponents.

Right before the end of the campaign, my players spend all their XP, got really good equipment and so on. The final sessions where... interesting. They where so powerful, there was no way the fight against the BBEG and his minions would have been more than a breeze, had I ran the finale out of the book so to speak. I had to do some serious changes to strenght, armor and action economy in order to keep the game interesting and challenging.

That said, most games are prone to a constant arms race between the players (PCs) and the GM. Seems I have to have a talk with my players, in every campaign we do, as to why I don't throw powerful items at them. I try to keep them satisfied with what they have, so we don't have to do the arms race in order to keep the game interesting and when explaining it thusly, they agree. At least for a while, then we need to have the talk all over again. The game is most fun when the players feel their characters are powerful, but the world still poses a threat to them. I try to find that point and then keep us there.

So, for my table, I rather keep tweaking the adventures in order to have them challenging and interesting to the end.
 
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hperantunes
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 02:02

Re: Campaign length?

Thu 25 May 2023, 04:48

My campaign has run over 70 sessions so far and the players' characters are quite powerful: more than 200 experience points spent per character.

At this "level", monsters (if meant to be dangerous) need to be heavily beefed up in encounters - about 2x to 3x more STR than the listed values. I don't tell my players the stats of monsters, so they still enjoy it. Even with that, "bosses" stand absolutely no chance in single combat against such powerful group so I have to add large numbers of weaker foes to make big battles challenging.

Ravens Purge and the other Forbidden Lands campaigns aren't really designed for player characters past a certain level of experience, perhaps around 40 game sessions or 100 experience points spent per character, but the game can still be fun if the challenges are tweaked and the setting remains engaging and mysterious.
 
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Dizzyfugu
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon 15 May 2023, 10:52

Re: Campaign length?

Thu 25 May 2023, 09:10

We have been running Raven's Purge, too, for almost two years now, probably 15+ sessions of 8hrs and more each, and with five PCs who have "earned" now around 90 XP each. Things really "escalated" when the first Rank 3 Talents were unlocked, and our GM ran into serious power level adjustment problems to keep encounters challenging but not per se (too) deadly. We had two fight scenes along the way that were good experiments for what the PC troupe is capable of, and it's both scary and a ride on the razor's edge - for both sides. Good thing is that the respect for any open confrontation and its consequences is still there among the players, but many smaller fights so far ended in a "what goes first kills first" scenario. Really tough job for the GM.
Additionally, we recently decided to adopt the Reforged Power expansion to add more versatility to the PCs and more "XP sinkholes", e.g., through the Rank 4/5 Talents, the requirement of certain Skills for Talents at a certain Rank. We adopted multi-classing as another option, because the OOB Professions feel very archetypical and can only progress into a certain direction. If your idea for a character does not match with the Professional Talent options, you either ignore them and waste (technical) character potential, or you adopt them even though they do not fit your idea of the figure.
At around 90XP, most of the players felt that the essence of their PCs had been "reached" (e.g. a druid who had the opportunity quite early in thew campaign to learn almost every Path from the basic PHb at a high level), and we recognized that the PCs all started to become quite similar beyond their core professions/interests. We'll see how things will evolve with the now heaavily expanded setup, though, because we decided to allow a "re-building" of characters from the start with the multi-classing option, and this might (IMHO) yield some weird results. I am curious how the encounter balance (see above) now is, it might have become even more challenging.
 
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Arnold
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon 06 Nov 2017, 20:06

Re: Campaign length?

Sun 28 May 2023, 10:47

The campaign endet in autum, it took about thirty episodes. I had 5 characters in it, and because they where very powerful in the end they each developed a second character so they journeyd through the lands in two groups.
It was lot of fun, ravenhole, stoneloop mines, valley of the dead and grond in the end are very good adventure sites.

In the end, we played through 11 adventure sites and the players where very strong. The healing druid is a mess, because he takes the death out of the game.
 
703145
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon 20 Jun 2022, 22:39

Re: Campaign length?

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 19:50

As a player, I played a 6 month campaign and felt that the low xp costs for talents made the game weird, even though I retired and made a new character half way in (that got to keep 50% of previously earned xp). As a GM, I'm now super happy that I adopted the alternative xp cost rules from Reforged Power. I even increased those with 1 point, so that skills costs 6/6/12/18/20 points of xp (for level 1/2/3/4/5) and talents costs the same. That players sink xp into skills and not just talents is really favourable. The campaign is 9 months in, and the cast is no where near being deadly combatants (but has learned to invest in Endurance and Survival to not be so easily killed by the the elements).
 
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pellejones
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Re: Campaign length?

Tue 06 Jun 2023, 20:42

We have played two campaigns, all made up by me, we did and do not use any official campaigns. I am the GM and I have four players.

Campaign one lasted 108 sessions. The players lost a lot of characters. Easily 5 or 6 each. We did a simple "you die and make a new character you get two level one extra talents and 40 xp to spend on skills".

Campaign two is 92 sessions in and still going. One player had a character for about 70 sessions and another for 50 sessions. Their characters both had the talent lucky 2 but died anyway. The other two have had 4-5 characters each or so. They play more carefully.

We have no house rules that change xp or levels or talents or any other major thing.

So I can say as a fair source that the game works just fine for long campaigns if you as a GM play the world as is, and trust the rules. I do not amp up the monsters or stuff. The PCs almost always die from being outnumbered by goblins, or from a sorcerer just killing them with spells, or from proper unluck with crits and cold weather.

tl;dr long campaigns work fine without any rules or xp changes.
 
JohanR
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue 02 Mar 2021, 23:34

Re: Campaign length?

Wed 07 Jun 2023, 00:05

I have not yet had to add x2 hit points to monsters, but I will likely add an extra monster to a lot of my players encounters soon.
Also making all monsters act on an extra initiative as recommended in the GMG is almost a must.

We only have 3 PCs though with 125 xp gained/player (but since we are using Reforged Power 5/5/10/15/25 xp costs, that would be equivalent to 96-117 gained xp/character using the regular rules).

Environment can also add a lot, the players had to fight a Gigant squid while submerged in water, and that nearly killed them, even though they all could breathe under water during the fight (through a spell). I managed to get 2 critical injuries on them the last two fights against a single monster.

That said, they also one shot a Grey Bear, with it only acting once.. so if they ever come across one of those again, it will very much come with a mate.

With free parries groups of NPC become less dangerous. NPCs can try to push such characters though, as the shove action is a bit overpowered, as you cannot parry it with a sword.
I also always buff important NPCs. Like if the players have 100s of xp, then important NPCs will as well, and some armor on top of that.
That made the initial fight against Sturkas rememberable, they where 3 PCs against 1 NPC, (one of the PCs used Manipulation to make the town guards stand down). But he still fought well, plus set them on fire and sucked out their blood to heal himself when damaged.
So any group of Iron Guards/Rust Brothers will instill some fear in them, even though the PCs are quite powerful.
 
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Dizzyfugu
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon 15 May 2023, 10:52

Re: Campaign length?

Wed 07 Jun 2023, 10:07

As a player, I played a 6 month campaign and felt that the low xp costs for talents made the game weird, even though I retired and made a new character half way in (that got to keep 50% of previously earned xp). As a GM, I'm now super happy that I adopted the alternative xp cost rules from Reforged Power.
Similar feeling here - we also switched to the Reforged Power XP cost system, as well as the Skills-limit-Talents option, and it feels much better now. We have to see how it unfolds in practice, but I already recognize that I give Skills higher priority now as their cost is relatively cheaper now (though not absolutely), and that character development has to be planned at least a little strategically.
 
decanox
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue 04 Jun 2019, 10:14

Re: Campaign length?

Mon 12 Jun 2023, 14:23

I am playing Raven's Purge for six months now in weekly sessions, maybe the campaign lasts another 6 months or one year. I don't know since it depends on players entirely.

For now, I have not tweaked anything but I'm a bit scared seeing comments.

To avoid or balance the excessive player progression I do the following:

- Award experience each two sessions (not one).
- NPCs can reroll dice (in fact that is RAW).
- Play NPCs with some strategy, not throwing them to characters as zombies.

For the moment, the game is balanced with some dead characters but I don't know... There is some character that it's starting to feel a bit overpowered but I'm keeping to not tweak anything except for the rules before.

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