Darklander
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri 17 Feb 2023, 09:34
Location: Germany

Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Mon 24 Apr 2023, 17:29

A Piercing Blow can – under normal circumstances – only be dealt if I roll a rune or a 10 (not an 11, since that is officially ruled out already as we now know). When I choose the Virtue Dour-handed (which gives me +1 on my Feat Die) a 9 would be upgraded to a 10. So far so good. But what if I roll a 10? According to the rules I’d have rolled too good and overshoot the mark because this is then counted as an 11. But I assume this exception slipped through the cracks in the playtesting phase and my cast of die is capped at 10, right?
So all in all (including the Favoured by the Grey Wizard special rule, see https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=10) it comes down to this in my understanding, when the Feat Die shows the following numbers:

  • 1 :arrow: 11 :arrow: 12 :arrow: no additional effect (only if Favoured by the ..., but since due to the rules this doesn’t grant a Piercing Blow, the 1 here is just converted to a 2 only)
  • 1-6 :arrow: 2-7 :arrow: no additional effect
  • 7 :arrow: 8 :arrow: Piercing Blow (but only with the dwarvish SUPERIOR KEEN reward, otherwise: no additional effect)
  • 8 :arrow: 9 :arrow: Piercing Blow (but only with the KEEN reward, otherwise: no additional effect)
  • 9 :arrow: 10 :arrow: Piercing Blow :!:
  • 10 :arrow: 11 :arrow: Piercing Blow :!: (since the result is capped at 10, so no disadvantage due to being Dour-handed)


[I omitted the chance of Tengwars increasing the Feat Die result by +1, +2 or +3, once or several times, because the table would then be too long and illegible]

Am I right here or barking up the wrong tree?
 
DarrenH
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed 29 Mar 2023, 22:27

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Mon 24 Apr 2023, 20:52

Your math looks right to me. However...

I think calling the Eye of Sauron rune an "11" causes a lot of confusion. There is no such thing as an 11 or 12 on a TOR feat die. It's a d10 with two extra possible results that aren't numbers at all. I've heard a lot of people do this in videos and forums, and I understand why they do. I just think it muddies the waters.
 
Darklander
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri 17 Feb 2023, 09:34
Location: Germany

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Mon 24 Apr 2023, 21:04

Your math looks right to me. However...

I think calling the Eye of Sauron rune an "11" causes a lot of confusion. There is no such thing as an 11 or 12 on a TOR feat die. It's a d10 with two extra possible results that aren't numbers at all. I've heard a lot of people do this in videos and forums, and I understand why they do. I just think it muddies the waters.

In this case it's the misprinted die I was referring to (that's why I mentioned "only if Favoured by the Grey wizard" in brackets).
So 11 does exist in TOR. ;-)
 
DarrenH
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed 29 Mar 2023, 22:27

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Mon 24 Apr 2023, 22:15

Lol. Oh yeah. Forgot about those guys. (I still can't believe those dice got away from Free League like that.) But also anyone using a regular d12. (Lucky for me I have my dice from 1e.) Like I say, I get why people say it. But the system doesn't work right if you think of it that way. If you add +1 to an Eye of Sauron you don't get a Gandalf Rune. Stuff like that.
 
User avatar
PunTheHun
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed 15 Jun 2022, 06:58
Contact:

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Tue 25 Apr 2023, 09:53

I think calling the Eye of Sauron rune an "11" causes a lot of confusion.
Yes. At least we fell into that trap, and I think the rulebook has some expressions that lay this trap nicely.

When explaining the 12-sided die to the players, would it be correct to say this?
The 12-sided effect die may yield numerical values from 0 to 10 (only, and 0 can only be the result of an effect that reduces the die result – barring that, the value range is 1 to 10). The eye and Gandalf rune are not equal to the numerical values 11/12, they just take the place of those numbers on an ordinary W12. They are triggers for certain effects, not particularly good/bad numbers. This means that an effect that adds 1 to your effect die can raise a 9 to a 10, but never a 10 to an Eye nor an Eye to a Gandalf. Numerical values are capped at 10, you cannot have a result higher than 10. A "10 + 1" is a 10, basta.
Concerning piercing damage, the value 10 (and the 9, if your weapon is keen) is also just a trigger for that kind of damage, but in this case it means the end result of the die. If some effect raises your W12 result from 9 to 10, it is a 10 and thus, for example, triggers "piercing".
If you roll an Eye in any Test, the W12 simply does not count for the end result (ignore the rule sentence that say it is "0", this is rubbish). (If you are Miserable, it even triggers an automatic and unconditional failure.)
--
Lutz
 
DarrenH
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed 29 Mar 2023, 22:27

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Tue 25 Apr 2023, 15:17

Sounds right. I think if I had to use a standard d12 I would find a way to make the 11 and 12 different colors. Marker, paint, whatever. It's just too confusing otherwise. I'm sure you would get used to it eventually, but still.
 
Darklander
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri 17 Feb 2023, 09:34
Location: Germany

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Sat 29 Apr 2023, 15:10

Sorry for the confusion or rather: my strange sense of humour and irony. :mrgreen: I thought it was obvious when using such an exaggerated example that a rune can’t be improved anymore. ;)

Lol. Oh yeah. Forgot about those guys. (I still can't believe those dice got away from Free League like that.) But also anyone using a regular d12. (Lucky for me I have my dice from 1e.) Like I say, I get why people say it. But the system doesn't work right if you think of it that way. If you add +1 to an Eye of Sauron you don't get a Gandalf Rune. Stuff like that.

No, you are right: The Eye of Sauron (=0) +1 only results in a 1 and does nothing and it especially doesn’t result in a Gandalf rune.

When explaining the 12-sided die to the players, would it be correct to say this?
The 12-sided effect die may yield numerical values from 0 to 10 (only, and 0 can only be the result of an effect that reduces the die result – barring that, the value range is 1 to 10). The eye and Gandalf rune are not equal to the numerical values 11/12, they just take the place of those numbers on an ordinary W12. They are triggers for certain effects, not particularly good/bad numbers. This means that an effect that adds 1 to your effect die can raise a 9 to a 10, but never a 10 to an Eye nor an Eye to a Gandalf. Numerical values are capped at 10, you cannot have a result higher than 10. A "10 + 1" is a 10, basta.
Concerning piercing damage, the value 10 (and the 9, if your weapon is keen) is also just a trigger for that kind of damage, but in this case it means the end result of the die. If some effect raises your W12 result from 9 to 10, it is a 10 and thus, for example, triggers "piercing".
If you roll an Eye in any Test, the W12 simply does not count for the end result (ignore the rule sentence that say it is "0", this is rubbish). (If you are Miserable, it even triggers an automatic and unconditional failure.)

Yes: numerical values can never be increased or decreased to Runes/Eyes and results above 10 are not possible/necessary.
But can you elaborate why you distinguish between counting the Eye as a 0 vs. ignoring the result at all? Is it because you can increase a 0 in theory which isn’t what the Eye is meant for?
 
User avatar
PunTheHun
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed 15 Jun 2022, 06:58
Contact:

Re: Piercing Blow & Dour-handed

Sat 29 Apr 2023, 15:12

Is it because you can increase a 0 in theory which isn’t what the Eye is meant for?
Yes, that is what I meant.
--
Lutz

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests