gyrovague
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Re: Balrog wings

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 19:29

I see no reason to exclude the movies from a discussion about a roleplaying game.
I agree, in the sense that it accomplishes nothing to pretend the movies don't exist.

AND...the movies and the books were very different, not just in the details but in the tone. TOR v1 was very much about the books and not the movies, and I for one very much hope (and fully expect) that v2 will follow suit. So I find it entirely legitimate to identify some element or lore as coming from the movies, not the books, and thus to exclude it from the game. A game that tries to do both will do neither very well.

EDIT: And that process can be undertaken without being dismissive and condescending about the movies. It's possible to point out the differences, and have a preference between the two, without labeling one as inferior.
 
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Rymdhamster
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Re: Balrog wings

Wed 12 Aug 2020, 20:15

TOR v1 was very much about the books and not the movies
Funny, I saw a lot of influences from the movies as well.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balrog wings

Thu 13 Aug 2020, 02:23

TOR v1 was very much about the books and not the movies
Funny, I saw a lot of influences from the movies as well.
Any examples?
 
Otaku-sempai
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Re: Balrog wings

Thu 13 Aug 2020, 03:32

Funny, I saw a lot of influences from the movies as well.
Any examples?
I'm a bit curious about that comment myself. I'm not seeing it.
#FideltyToTolkien
 
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Rymdhamster
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Re: Balrog wings

Thu 13 Aug 2020, 18:34

Any examples?
For me the presence of the shadow and it's effect on PCs feels much more in line with the movies than the books, even though "outer" effects of it seem to be more present in the books. Although the big thing to me is how cinematic the fights are. The system is really great for capturing that feel of movies where start out with a shield and a helmet and then take them of when the battle intensifies (to reduce encumberance), as well as how fatigue functions where you can still hit as hard as before, your wild swings just become more hit or miss; either you hit really well, or not at all. What you loose are those "kind of hits" in between. Again, to me that speaks much more of the movies than of the books, though it of course depens a lot on what you yourself bring to the books, they are after all a much more interactive medium than movies.

But mostly, like I said before: I really don't see any reason to exclude the movies. From your table, if you don't like them, sure. Exclude away =) But in generall discussion... there are alot of people today who only approach LoTR from the movie side of things. And I see no point in sticking too closely to any source matieral when it comes to RPGs. After all, pretty much the whole point of an RPG is to _not_ stick to the source material. Otherwise one might as well read the book =D

It's just a matter of how much deviation one is feels comfortable with.
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balrog wings

Thu 13 Aug 2020, 20:24

For me the presence of the shadow and it's effect on PCs feels much more in line with the movies than the books, even though "outer" effects of it seem to be more present in the books.
Huh. I have to admit, I haven't seen the movies in so long that I'm not sure I can think of how it represents that differently from the books.
Although the big thing to me is how cinematic the fights are. The system is really great for capturing that feel of movies where start out with a shield and a helmet and then take them of when the battle intensifies (to reduce encumberance), as well as how fatigue functions where you can still hit as hard as before, your wild swings just become more hit or miss; either you hit really well, or not at all. What you loose are those "kind of hits" in between. Again, to me that speaks much more of the movies than of the books, though it of course depens a lot on what you yourself bring to the books, they are after all a much more interactive medium than movies.
My first instinct was to disagree with this, and say that TOR combat is highly un-cinematic.

But I guess what I really mean is that it's not very tactical, in the sense of not very many choices to make, which isn't the same thing.

But it's also abstract, in that it leaves a lot to narration and imagination. More than most RPGs. For example, bonus combat dice can be used to represent whatever you want them to. Want to make a sneak attack in TOR? Use your bonus dice to represent that.

So although I don't personally think of TOR combat as cinematic, and I don't narrate the combat mechanics as cinematic, because of this malleability it can be whatever you want it to be.

Which is nice, right?
But mostly, like I said before: I really don't see any reason to exclude the movies. From your table, if you don't like them, sure. Exclude away =) But in generall discussion... there are alot of people today who only approach LoTR from the movie side of things. And I see no point in sticking too closely to any source matieral when it comes to RPGs. After all, pretty much the whole point of an RPG is to _not_ stick to the source material. Otherwise one might as well read the book =D
This confused me. Maybe we're not talking about the same thing? I'm thinking about the feel of the rules, and the tone of the game, which can't really be "excluded" on an item-by-item basis. It's not a matter of which specific lore items get included or excluded, but what aesthetic the rules evoke.

That said, I can also see how depictions of people and places could evoke one or the other. Arwen would be a great example, because she's so different from books to movie.
 
Dunheved
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Re: Balrog wings

Sat 18 Mar 2023, 12:04

March 2023.
So with Moria approaching...

Can anybody confirm whether there will several versions of the Moria book made available so that fans can purchase the text that fits their Middle-earth?

Version 1. (The Literal version) In which Balrogs have wings and can fly.
Version 11. (The Eleventy One or Misprint version) In which Balrogs have wings but cannot fly.
Version 2. (The Metaphor version) In which Balrogs are described as embedded in a terror-inducing shadow, but have no wings and cannot fly.
Version 3. (A.k.a. the Helicopter version) In which Balrogs CAN fly, but do NOT have wings.*


*Original plans to name this the Dumbo Version had to be shelved when the House of Mouse intervened on some sort of Copyright claim.


OR

Will we be given two different "Balrog Inserts" and be instructed to use only the insert that tells the truth as we see it?
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balrog wings

Tue 21 Mar 2023, 08:23

As I started saying when C7 first announced this project, I think the box (of the boxed set) should contain a perforated fold-out Balrog, like the box that Chamucos tequila comes in. Or at least some kind of foldable cardstock Balrog inside the box.

Image
 
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Xelforp
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Re: Balrog wings

Thu 23 Mar 2023, 10:20

Jack... no, Balrog in the box? :)
 
gyrovague
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Re: Balrog wings

Fri 24 Mar 2023, 01:06

Jack... no, Balrog in the box? :)
Now we're talking. The first time you open the boxed set the Balrog jumps out at you.

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