User avatar
Logen_Nein
Topic Author
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2022, 02:37
Contact:

Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 04:29

Say my Thief wants to dabble in magic. How would that work with Jack of all Trades? I gain the profession ability Magic, selecting say Animism. The profession ability says I gain the appropriate magic skill as trained. Say I have an INT of 15, does Animism start at 6 or 12? Do I select 3 rank one spells and tricks as a starting Animist (saying perhaps that I found a grimoire story wise to explain the gain) or do I have to find/learn them separately? What do you all think?
 
User avatar
Kaybe
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri 14 May 2021, 18:26

Re: Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 06:50

The ability to cast magic appears to be a specific profession ability for the Mage in the same way that Backstabbing is a specific profession ability for the Thief.

As per the Profession Ability section on Page 14, "Each profession has a profession ability that no other profession can learn"

Ergo, even if your Thief used Jack of All Trades to double his score in Animism (that's what being trained does), it still does not allow him to cast spells as that is exclusive to the Mage.
 
User avatar
Logen_Nein
Topic Author
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2022, 02:37
Contact:

Re: Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 09:52

As per the Profession Ability section on Page 14, "Each profession has a profession ability that no other profession can learn"
Except, unless I'm reading it wrong, Jack of all Trades gets you the profession ability (in this case Magic) of any other profession. Not just the skill, the ability.
 
User avatar
Kaybe
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri 14 May 2021, 18:26

Re: Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 16:53

As per the Profession Ability section on Page 14, "Each profession has a profession ability that no other profession can learn"
Except, unless I'm reading it wrong, Jack of all Trades gets you the profession ability (in this case Magic) of any other profession. Not just the skill, the ability.
Errr, yes, you are in fact reading it right. I'm not sure why I read it as learning a new skill. If that's the case, then you would learn that profession ability exactly as is worded by that profession ability. Which is to say training in a magic skill, three level 1 spells, three tricks, as well as access to a grimoire. Training in a skill doubles it's value from it's base. Base scores in a skill are based on the attribute it's based on (Int) as per page 26.

Apologies again.

P.S: This heroic ability is ridiculously broken.
 
User avatar
Narl
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun 29 Nov 2020, 05:08
Location: Misty Mountains

Re: Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 21:28

JOT would make more sense if it let you add another trained skill or something like that. As written, JOT is ridiculous. Never mind the Mage problem, but it also allows a character, after a single session of play, to become a fully trained blackmith!
 
User avatar
Logen_Nein
Topic Author
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2022, 02:37
Contact:

Re: Jack of all Trades

Thu 01 Dec 2022, 23:25

I don't see the issue with it (considering the rarity of Heroic talents). It gives you options. I hope they don't change this, and if they do I'll keep it in.
 
Box_of_Hats
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2022, 22:58

Re: Jack of all Trades

Fri 02 Dec 2022, 05:47

I think the biggest costs in Jack of All Trades to gain magic are that you need to have high Intelligence to make it worthwhile, and the Iron/Magic limitation (pg. 58). If you rolled a Thief with high AGL, INT, and WIL, then you have a choice of swapping your INT with CON for more survivability or building an arcane trickster.

Any character who wants reasonable Sneaking and Mobility will already by wearing light enough armour that iron isn't an issue, but a warrior character is then choosing between defense or spellcasting. I think there's also a rules question regarding whether some weapons interfere. If you have a spear with a wooden shaft and a steel head, does that interfere? It's probably a Tiny amount of steel. What if you have a quiver full of steel-headed arrows? Does that count as being in "direct contact" if it's on your person, or does it need to be in your hands? There are potentially character limiting factors there, but I think it needs to be clarified.

But also, if a non-Mage is spending their first Heroic Ability on Jack of All Trades, then that's the time that an actual Mage is taking something like Master Spellcaster, at which point the non-Mage would need to wait until the second slot to gain that. They're also passing up abilities like Assassin for a Thief, resulting in being worse at the Thief job and worse at the Mage job.

So there are some lingering questions, but it doesn't strike me as a huge issue.
 
jalexandratos
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri 16 Dec 2016, 20:28

Re: Jack of all Trades

Fri 02 Dec 2022, 07:20

Say my Thief wants to dabble in magic. How would that work with Jack of all Trades? I gain the profession ability Magic, selecting say Animism. The profession ability says I gain the appropriate magic skill as trained. Say I have an INT of 15, does Animism start at 6 or 12? Do I select 3 rank one spells and tricks as a starting Animist (saying perhaps that I found a grimoire story wise to explain the gain) or do I have to find/learn them separately? What do you all think?
This is a good question. Immediately thought 6 since a new spell school starts at the base level (Learning Magic - p61). The Magic ability (p23) makes it sound like the ability grants 3 tricks and 3 rank 1 spells (along w/ the ability to cast spells). No mention of skill level.

This works well for recreating hedge-magic “half-casters” (Fahrd & The Grey Mouser, ranger/arcane trickster/etc…).

But this gets muddied by the Magic text box on page 27, which recycles p23 and says that a starting mage (does someone trying to replicate a ranger, arcane trickster, rando multiclass, etc) count as “starting” when they begin learning magic?

Honestly, I think the text box on 27 should be rewritten. Specify clearly that the Mage’s first magic school skill begins at the trained level. All additional magic skill (including those “multiclassing” in) begins at the base level.

Heck, for the half-casting scenario, FL may even want to consider appending the description to say that only 2 tricks and 1 rank 1 spell are granted by JOT.
 
User avatar
Melvin
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun 22 Dec 2019, 01:45

Re: Jack of all Trades

Fri 02 Dec 2022, 12:42

With JOT, multi mage is almost pointless. Because you could just state in JOT that mages can take another school with this heroic ability and note "multi mage" on their character sheet.
 
User avatar
Narl
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun 29 Nov 2020, 05:08
Location: Misty Mountains

Re: Jack of all Trades

Fri 02 Dec 2022, 15:45

Instead of using JOT there should be some kind of half caster feat Heroic Ability that you can only take once and with very limited parameters: lower starting skill, limited starting spells, no grimoire use (only spells in memory), etc.

Half casters should be a thing but JOT is an awkward way to do it. I

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest