Jeff Wilder
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Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Sat 15 Oct 2022, 12:26

When it comes to Mr. Gaska, he is the setting writer, not the rules designer. He has vast knowledge of the lore and setting, but not necessary the same knowledge about game mechanics, Tomas have that, that is his job.

Agreed, and to be fair he said exactly that. I'm convinced now that (3) is the likely intent, though I do think it technically bumps into the "add your STRESS LEVEL dice to the roll" rule on 61, and I think that section would benefit from an example of pushing an already successful roll.

I discussed it with my players tonight after the conclusion of CotG ([Redacted] went up in a nuclear fireball, although [Redacted] was almost convinced by the remaining crew to risk [Redacted] Station), and we're in agreement that we like the tone of risking more when pushing a successful roll (even if the initial success was on a stress die), so we're going to stick with (4). Someone on FB mentioned that he thought it was "unfair" to "punish" players by having them reroll a stress die that already came up a success, but our consensus is that it feels less "Alien" if you can decide to push a skill roll based on whether your success was on (or even successes were on) a stress die. So we're going with always adding your current STRESS LEVEL to all rolls, including pushed rolls. Initial successes from stress dice just get "flipped" to base dice.

As an aside, I do think the system could use a type of Attribute or Skill roll that doesn't add stress dice. We occasionally ran into questions like, "I'm a pilot ... would I know this weird corollary to the physics regarding angular momentum?" While many time I was comfortable with saying , "You would definitely know that," or less frequently, "No, that's a little too esoteric for you to know," sometimes it was a much harder call, so I'd ask for something like a Wits+Piloting roll. This wasn't actively doing something on the spot, but rather just a test of knowledge the PC had picked up in the past, so I didn't really feel like there should be stress dice added.

Is there another mechanic somewhere that better suits these situations? Or is "Because MU/TH/UR said so" always supposed to be good enough? I'm fairly comfortable with the method I settled on, but I was surprised how frequently this sort of thing came up over the three sessions we've played. I'm a strongly "the dice fall as the fall" type of GM, so all-fiat-all-the-time makes me a little uncomfortable.
Jeff Wilder | San Francisco Bay Area
"And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me." | Belly
 
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Grimmshade
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed 05 May 2021, 23:15

Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Sat 15 Oct 2022, 15:22

When it comes to Mr. Gaska, he is the setting writer, not the rules designer. He has vast knowledge of the lore and setting, but not necessary the same knowledge about game mechanics, Tomas have that, that is his job.

Agreed, and to be fair he said exactly that. I'm convinced now that (3) is the likely intent, though I do think it technically bumps into the "add your STRESS LEVEL dice to the roll" rule on 61, and I think that section would benefit from an example of pushing an already successful roll.

I discussed it with my players tonight after the conclusion of CotG ([Redacted] went up in a nuclear fireball, although [Redacted] was almost convinced by the remaining crew to risk [Redacted] Station), and we're in agreement that we like the tone of risking more when pushing a successful roll (even if the initial success was on a stress die), so we're going to stick with (4). Someone on FB mentioned that he thought it was "unfair" to "punish" players by having them reroll a stress die that already came up a success, but our consensus is that it feels less "Alien" if you can decide to push a skill roll based on whether your success was on (or even successes were on) a stress die. So we're going with always adding your current STRESS LEVEL to all rolls, including pushed rolls. Initial successes from stress dice just get "flipped" to base dice.

As an aside, I do think the system could use a type of Attribute or Skill roll that doesn't add stress dice. We occasionally ran into questions like, "I'm a pilot ... would I know this weird corollary to the physics regarding angular momentum?" While many time I was comfortable with saying , "You would definitely know that," or less frequently, "No, that's a little too esoteric for you to know," sometimes it was a much harder call, so I'd ask for something like a Wits+Piloting roll. This wasn't actively doing something on the spot, but rather just a test of knowledge the PC had picked up in the past, so I didn't really feel like there should be stress dice added.

Is there another mechanic somewhere that better suits these situations? Or is "Because MU/TH/UR said so" always supposed to be good enough? I'm fairly comfortable with the method I settled on, but I was surprised how frequently this sort of thing came up over the three sessions we've played. I'm a strongly "the dice fall as the fall" type of GM, so all-fiat-all-the-time makes me a little uncomfortable.
I've had many real life moments where I became more stressed because I was trying to remember something. So for me personally I'm comfortable with knowledge rolls following the regular rules. I usually just allow PC's to know that stuff though.
Our group just rerolls the non-success dice, whether they are regular or stress dice. Panic happens a LOT in the game anyway.
On the Andrew Gaska thing, he's an amazing lore guy, but if you watch any of the actual play that he is in you can see he's not the rules guy.
 
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ExileInParadise
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Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Sun 16 Oct 2022, 15:52

Not sure if this helps, but this is what the Year Zero Engine SRD says:
PUSHING YOUR ROLL
If you are desperate to succeed with a dice roll, you can choose to push it. This means that you grab all the dice that did not come up as a success (six) or a bane (one on Base Dice and Gear Dice) and roll them again. You get a new chance to roll sixes.
You cannot choose which dice to reroll. When you push, you must roll all dice that did not come up as a success or a bane.
Usually, you would only push a roll if you failed it – although you can push your roll even if you rolled successes at first, to get more successes to increase the effect of an attack for example. Pushing a roll is not without risk – more on that below.
How a pushed roll plays out in story terms depends on what kind of action you are performing. It doesn’t have to be a physical effort, it might be about complete mental focus or an emotional struggle.
Skill Dice: Ones on Skill Dice do not count as banes and can thus be re-rolled when you push the roll.
Gear Dice: If you push your roll, you must also push any Gear Dice.
Only Once: You can only push your roll once. If you don’t succeed on your second try, you just have to deal with the consequences.
BANES ARE ACTIVATED
When you push yourself hard, there is a risk that you will suffer injury or exhaustion, or that your weapon will be damaged. After you have pushed your roll, look at all the dice on the table. In the first roll, banes (ones on Base Dice and Gear Dice) had no effect, but when you push they become active. It doesn’t matter if the banes came up in the first roll or the second.
• If you rolled one or more bane on a Base Die when you push, you suffer 1 point of damage to the attribute you have used for every bane rolled. Read more about damage in Chapter 5.
• If you rolled one or more bane on a Gear Die when you push, your item’s Gear Bonus is decreased by 1 per bane rolled.
• Ones on Skill Dice never count as banes.
We live, as we dream -- alone. ~ Joseph Conrad
 
foxglovedual
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Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Fri 18 Nov 2022, 10:24

Aside from that, I do believe the system may benefit from an attribute or skill roll type without stress dice. We sometimes had inquiries along the lines of, "I'm a pilot; would I know this strange physics corollary relating angular momentum?" Even though I was often confident in my ability to respond, "You would definitely know that," or, less frequently, "No, that's a little too esoteric for you to know," there were times when it was much harder to make the call. In these cases, I would request a roll on Wits+Piloting. I didn't really think stress dice should be included since this wasn't anything the PC was actively performing on the spot but rather was merely a test of information they had learned in the pastretro bowl
 
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Grimmshade
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Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Fri 18 Nov 2022, 15:30

Aside from that, I do believe the system may benefit from an attribute or skill roll type without stress dice. We sometimes had inquiries along the lines of, "I'm a pilot; would I know this strange physics corollary relating angular momentum?" Even though I was often confident in my ability to respond, "You would definitely know that," or, less frequently, "No, that's a little too esoteric for you to know," there were times when it was much harder to make the call. In these cases, I would request a roll on Wits+Piloting. I didn't really think stress dice should be included since this wasn't anything the PC was actively performing on the spot but rather was merely a test of information they had learned in the pastretro bowl
I generally just say yes or no in those situations. You could easily houserule a "knowledge" roll that doesn't add stress, but imo if you are trying to pull out a piece of esoteric knowledge on the spot it's got the chance to be stressful. On the other hand, if you're looking for knowledge and you have plenty of time, then you'll probably find the answer w/o a roll (or the answer just isn't available.)
 
zook
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Re: How does pushing for more successes actually work?

Sat 19 Nov 2022, 15:23

Stress Dice aren't just "it's more difficult under stressful condition" it's also your character overall mental condition and trust me when shit hit fan, even recalling simple things like answer what is your name can be hard. That's why for every important stuff people train, train, train no mater if its phisical or mental skill.

That's why you add stress dice to every test (and you test only when there is risk of failure, if not don't test at all).

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