Skunk
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Re: Ammo spent

Wed 28 Sep 2022, 00:21

Ammo Dice - the 'Success' on the d6 ammo die is only on the 6 face meaning you expend 6 rounds of ammo on each success. Would it not be more random to have put the successes on difference die faces through the set. So for the base set of 6 die, have the successes on each of the different faces and the 'Jam/bane' icon on the opposite face?
Players would always pick up the dice with the hits marked on the lower numbers when they were rolling less than 6 dice though, or I know I would ;)
 
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silverfoxdmt73
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Re: Ammo spent

Wed 28 Sep 2022, 10:47

Ammo Dice - the 'Success' on the d6 ammo die is only on the 6 face meaning you expend 6 rounds of ammo on each success. Would it not be more random to have put the successes on difference die faces through the set. So for the base set of 6 die, have the successes on each of the different faces and the 'Jam/bane' icon on the opposite face?
Players would always pick up the dice with the hits marked on the lower numbers when they were rolling less than 6 dice though, or I know I would ;)

But on a VTT it could be totally random..

I understand what you mean, but you could get them to pick die at random.
 
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FatherJ_ct
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Re: Ammo spent

Sat 15 Oct 2022, 02:20

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but it seems to fit here.

Ammo Dice - the 'Success' on the d6 ammo die is only on the 6 face meaning you expend 6 rounds of ammo on each success. Would it not be more random to have put the successes on difference die faces through the set. So for the base set of 6 die, have the successes on each of the different faces and the 'Jam/bane' icon on the opposite face?

It just seems to penalise you through high ammo use to be spending 6 ammo for each additional success all the time.
I don't mind how it is in the RAW. Say you roll three ammo dice. You could end up expending 15 rounds with no effect or 8 rounds and a bullet symbol, but odds are that you will probably expend more ammo if you do roll a bullet symbol than if you don't, which is logical to me (the volume of bullets being the effect it is trying to simulate).
"Spray and pray " full ROF is as fast as possible (full auto). You are not going to get "single shot" hit numbers. Literally are just firing as fast as you can down range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_ ... y_and_pray


There is slight adjustment going into the rules, per Tomas from this thread https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.ph ... e&start=30
"Tomas
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#35
2 months ago

Hi! This is being adressed in the reprint, and we will of course update the PDF as well and include in an official errata. The new wording on the relevant paragraphs on page 66 in the Player's Manual goes:

AMMO DICE: Firearms give you ammodice to add to your skill roll. Six such tan colored D6s are included in this boxed set. You can add as many ammodice to your attack as you like, from zero up to the rate of fire (RoF) rating of your weapon or the number of rounds left in the magazine minus one, whichever is lower. For example, if you have three rounds left, you can add up to two ammodice.
If you have only one round left, you cannot add any ammodice to our roll. In this case, or if you choose to use no ammodice, only one (1) round of ammunition is used in the attack. This is typically only the case for sniper shots (page 63), but can also be useful if you are very low on ammo or your weapon is in a bad condition (low reliability rating).

AMMO SPENT: After your roll, you sum up the D6 digits on all of your ammodice, then add one (1) to the result. This sum is the total amount of ammunition you have spent on the attack. If the sum on your ammodice is equal to or more than the number of rounds you have left in the magazine, your magazine is completely emptied.

I hope this clears things up."
 
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Ursus Maior
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Re: Ammo spent

Sat 22 Oct 2022, 17:47

Ah, I missed the +1 ammo spent so far. I'll communicate that to my group. To much delight, I presume. :mrgreen:
liber & infractus
 
drgonzo2020
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Re: Ammo spent

Sun 23 Oct 2022, 16:17

I'm curious about how people are house ruling the ammo dice (assuming they are, OC). For my game, I have three categories of multiple shots - single shots, controlled bursts and full auto/suppression fire. Each takes more rounds, but has a greater variety of effects, from multiple base hits with single shots to the full range of options from the base rules with full auto. I get around the variable nature of ammo expended by just having each type of fire expend a fixed amount - 1 for single shot, 3 for burst, 6 for full auto - with the player needing to have enough rounds to cover this at least partially. So, you could go full auto ROF 2 with 7 rounds. So far this has worked, giving the players more options (while fitting in with the base system) while controlling for some of the oddities the rules as written could lead to (like an M16A1 getting 6 ammo dice with only 6 rounds left). I also have limit to the max number of ammo dice, based on the type of fire (I have caps on the maximum dice for single shot and burst).
 
kcdusk
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 24 Oct 2022, 23:14

For those wanting a special forces type character doing double taps to each enemy, there is a way this can happen without using ammo dice (and thus using a lot of ammo).

If you have the right skills at short range and other modifiers in your favour (the way a SF operator will) you get to roll 2xD12 and then rolling 10+ on one or two dice gets you the double tap effect of tango down, with additional hits, damage or critical hits. Also, if this doesn't work the first time and the situation is critical and calls for it, then PUSh your roll. In effect, you get two opportunities to roll D10 or D12s and try to roll 10+. Even a single 10+ along with a 6-9 means multiple hits. You may even get 4 successes.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 25 Oct 2022, 10:24

For those wanting a special forces type character doing double taps to each enemy, there is a way this can happen without using ammo dice (and thus using a lot of ammo).

If you have the right skills at short range and other modifiers in your favour (the way a SF operator will) you get to roll 2xD12 and then rolling 10+ on one or two dice gets you the double tap effect of tango down, with additional hits, damage or critical hits. Also, if this doesn't work the first time and the situation is critical and calls for it, then PUSh your roll. In effect, you get two opportunities to roll D10 or D12s and try to roll 10+. Even a single 10+ along with a 6-9 means multiple hits. You may even get 4 successes.
You can spend the extra successes on increased damage but the only way to get more than one hit is with ammo dice.
 
Vcutter
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 25 Oct 2022, 15:03

Keep in mind the variable ampunt of ammo represents the rounds needed to get the desired effect.
When shooting at people who are shooting back, you usually don’t go ”two double taps will do the job” or ”im gonna fire two 3 round bursts at this dude”. Nope, you fire until you get the desired effect or until the opportunity to shoot ceases to be present. Numerous irl examples can be found on the internet filmed by police body/dash cams.

Imo the ammo dice mechanic represents the unknown factors of uncertain hits and weird terminal ballistics beautifully. If you do decide to put more than one round into the target, you can affect the amount spent a bit, but you cannot decide 100% beforehand what your character needs to do.

So those double tappers can put in one ammo dice. Sometimes they get the effect with 2 bullets. But if the target isn’t going down you think that smooth operator will simply stop shooting? Nope. He will spend more rounds to get the job done.
 
Oddball_E8
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 25 Oct 2022, 18:57

Keep in mind the variable ampunt of ammo represents the rounds needed to get the desired effect.
When shooting at people who are shooting back, you usually don’t go ”two double taps will do the job” or ”im gonna fire two 3 round bursts at this dude”. Nope, you fire until you get the desired effect or until the opportunity to shoot ceases to be present. Numerous irl examples can be found on the internet filmed by police body/dash cams.

Imo the ammo dice mechanic represents the unknown factors of uncertain hits and weird terminal ballistics beautifully. If you do decide to put more than one round into the target, you can affect the amount spent a bit, but you cannot decide 100% beforehand what your character needs to do.

So those double tappers can put in one ammo dice. Sometimes they get the effect with 2 bullets. But if the target isn’t going down you think that smooth operator will simply stop shooting? Nope. He will spend more rounds to get the job done.
I'm houseruling that if the player wants to decide how many ammo dice he/she rolls, they have to pass a CUF roll first (and that includes for snipers just shooting one shot)
 
Vcutter
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 25 Oct 2022, 20:02

m houseruling that if the player wants to decide how many ammo dice he/she rolls, they have to pass a CUF roll first
Your table, your rules. That being said sounds a bit harsh though. Also how do you decide how many dice he uses? To me this mechanic means one extra CuF roll with every attack and probably some random die roll to determine the amount of ammo dice used. What in it in your opinion makes it worth two extra rolls for the attack?
Also as for the use of sniper rifles, especially bolt action, I don't think this is beneficial representation of "combat stress" since situations where they are used are normally not as hectic as CQB situations. But even as a game mechanic this robs the players from the use of their telescopic sight bonus so I personally wouldn't house rule it that way.
Caveat: if it enhances the play experience in your table go for it!

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