Oddball_E8
Topic Author
Posts: 325
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 20:13

Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Sun 25 Sep 2022, 16:47

So, I was looking through the modifiers for the different terrains and I came across something that confused me a bit.

So, on the battlemaps, Forest is indicated by sparsely populated trees while Foliage is indicated by densely populated trees.

While this makes some sense, since Forest only gives you -1 to ranged attacks and movement but +1 to infiltration and a maximum visibility of 3 and Foliage gives you -2 to ranged, -3 to movement, +2 to infiltration and a maximum visibility of 1, there is an issue with solid cover.

In Forest hexes, you can get into solid cover.
But in Foliage hexes, you cannot.

I interpret Foliage hexes as just denser Forest, so why can't you get into hard cover there?
 
leonpoi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Sun 25 Sep 2022, 17:27

Yeah. Super good question. I went back to read to find the answer …. and I can’t find one that makes sense. UNLESS, foliage is dense shrubs vs trees.

But, I think the real answer may be that visibility is 1 and cover doesn’t count in the same hex. Maybe
Last edited by leonpoi on Mon 26 Sep 2022, 13:25, edited 1 time in total.
 
Oddball_E8
Topic Author
Posts: 325
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 20:13

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Sun 25 Sep 2022, 17:43

Yeah. Super good question. I went back to read to find the answer …. and I can’t find one that makes sense. UNLESS, foliage is dense shrubs V2 trees.

But, I think the real answer may be that visibility is 1 and cover doesn’t count in the same hex. Maybe
I always interpreted visibility 1 as you being able to see 1 hex away from your own, not as not being able to see outside your own hex.

Mainly because if that's the case, standing at the edge of a large forest (ie. foliage hex) looking out, you wouldn't be able to see anything.
 
leonpoi
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Mon 26 Sep 2022, 13:25

Yes. That would make sense. So, the obvious thought is that this is an oversight
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 641
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Mon 26 Sep 2022, 22:39

The term "foliage" basically means leaves. It derives from the Middle-French word "foille", which means "leaf". Foil, as in tin or aluminum foil also derives from this French word.

Once you understand how the word foliage is derived, the differences between forest and foliage hexes in the game make more sense. However it looks on the battle maps, I would interpret it as being very little actual cover but a lot of leafy concealment. It could be thin saplings, bushes, etc.

[EDIT] The modern French word for leaf is "feuille", which still shows obvious similarities to the word "foliage".
Last edited by baldrick0712 on Mon 26 Sep 2022, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 641
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Mon 26 Sep 2022, 22:42

UNLESS, foliage is dense shrubs vs trees.
I agree.
 
User avatar
omnipus
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Tue 27 Sep 2022, 06:06

This might make sense in the context of specifically Polish forest. Many forests of Poland are birch or sosna pine -- tall, thin, featureless stick farms, essentially. Like so:

Image

You can see how this doesn't offer as much concealment as even a patch of bushes might. But it does offer intermittent hard cover (and obstructs vehicles).
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
Oddball_E8
Topic Author
Posts: 325
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 20:13

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Tue 27 Sep 2022, 13:37

This might make sense in the context of specifically Polish forest. Many forests of Poland are birch or sosna pine -- tall, thin, featureless stick farms, essentially. Like so:

Image

You can see how this doesn't offer as much concealment as even a patch of bushes might. But it does offer intermittent hard cover (and obstructs vehicles).
Yes, but Foliage would be just this but with more foliage on the ground, then.

Also, this is also largely what large parts of Sweden is like. Only with a bit more rocks and moss on the ground.
 
User avatar
omnipus
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Mon 03 Oct 2022, 05:18

There are certainly smaller trees, bushes, ground clutter, etc in Poland -- ie, "foliage." Especially along river banks and so on. But when you talk about "forest" it mostly tends to be these stick parades that grow tall and leafy/needley, but don't offer much at ground level.

Like I said, this is the only justification I can think of for this. Generally when *I* think of forest I think of it being denser and more concealing than "foliage." But in this particular setting the opposite might very well be true (and as you mention, in Sweden as well).
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
User avatar
FatherJ_ct
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2022, 07:38

Re: Question about Foliage vs Forest hexes.

Mon 17 Oct 2022, 01:18

forrest/foliage confused me too, but I agree with the foliage is the shrubs+ trees.

I defaulted in my head to old Battletech. Light woods (forrest), heavy woods (foliage).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests