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VorpalMace
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 18:23

The more I think about it the more having two perception skills (scouting and spot hidden) feel redundant to me. Let's merge them and have another CHA skill, like Leadership or Fast Talk/Deceit.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 19:21

A person that has hid himself is not sneaking anywhere, he has hid himself and then he stays hidden hoping that no one finds him. Scouting can be seen as some sort of danger sense, you can detect if someone is sneaking upon you, perhaps to get near so they can pickpocket you.

By separate those skills, we can have someone who is an expert detecting secret doors, hidden treasures or clues, but isn't necessary good at avoiding animals or monsters sneaking up on you in the wilderness and vice versa.

We don't have the full rules so we have to wait for that before we know. My description is based on what little Tomas have mentioned in interviews and how earlier editions have handled this.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
GeekyReese
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 20:41

New topic: Magic

Based on my groups' playthroughs we've come to the same conclusion that we love the idea of the spell point system.

A couple of things that seem out of place, maybe another look at the magic system or we're missing something:

Magic Tricks
These cost 1 WP but seem to be geared towards theme and roleplay. I can see the idea behind the cost of a single WP, but at the same time, Tricks are considered "...the first thing a sorcerer learns...". It would make sense that over time and with training a spellcaster would not even think about doing a Trick, it would come second nature and with the growth of their knowledge and power, Tricks would eventually cost nothing. As for Players/Game Mechanics, my players found Tricks to be lacking as they didn't want to worry about Point Consumption should a battle erupt.

For our Playthrough I changed the cost of Tricks to 0 and found that Players were more inclined to use tricks. The group used Ignite to extinguish the torches in the lit chambers in order to sneak through the area.

Fireball
Fireball: This costs a minimum of 2 WP for 1D6 damage, and 6 WP for 3D6 damage or targets a secondary creature. This spell feels very underwhelming when compared to Gust of Wind or Pillar which both do damage and have a secondary effect. Even compared to non-Spellcasting characters such as Orla, Makander, and Bastonn. These three characters can do equal or more damage then a spellcaster using Fireball, and it only costs them an action. Orla's bow does 3d6 damage, Makander's Battleaxe does 2D8+1D4, and Bastonn's Long Spear does 2D8+1D6. Fireball feels very underpowered when compared to these non-spellcasters.

Possible fix(s):
1) Make starting damage 2D6 instead of 1D6. If this is done, then Increase damage by 1D6 for every level after.
2) Keep starting damage at 1D6, but on hit, the spell causes an explosion damaging all targets within 1 square of the initial target for half damage, or a set amount.


Question = Answered
Regarding Pillar, it states D10 damage if the target falls at level 1, however falling damage is set at D6 for every 3 meters, is this a typo? It seems a little inconsistent.
Overall, I think Pillar is the best of the three spells available at this time as it has the highest possible damage output as well as various out-of-combat capabilities.
Last edited by GeekyReese on Fri 16 Sep 2022, 21:46, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 21:09

If the pillar is created under a low ceiling and the MOBILITY roll fails, the victim takes D10 bludgeoning damage.
The d10 is not falling damage, it is the damage taken when crushed against the ceiling.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
GeekyReese
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 21:19

If the pillar is created under a low ceiling and the MOBILITY roll fails, the victim takes D10 bludgeoning damage.
The d10 is not falling damage, it is the damage taken when crushed against the ceiling.
AH! Thank you for this, I went back and re-read that area, I was indeed mistaken. :lol:
 
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Kaybe
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 22:22

I think the issue is that both Spot Hidden and Scouting sound active rather than passive. Like no one passively scouts. Scouting in every profession where one scouts is something done actively. Every game I know of that has a Scouting skill uses that actively. In fact, of the two, Spot Hidden has the more passive name. But really, please don't use Scouting as a passive skill in the english books as it will confuse the hell out of English speaking tabletop gamers.

I'd recommend instead a name change from Scouting to simply Perception. Perception is a skill name very very well known to the RPG community as a whole as the defacto skill name for passive awareness. Likewise, you could that call the skill Awareness instead as that also is used in some games when referring to passive detection.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 22:44

I think the issue is that both Spot Hidden and Scouting sound active rather than passive. Like no one passively scouts. Scouting in every profession where one scouts is something done actively. Every game I know of that has a Scouting skill uses that actively. In fact, of the two, Spot Hidden has the more passive name. But really, please don't use Scouting as a passive skill in the english books as it will confuse the hell out of English speaking tabletop gamers.

I'd recommend instead a name change from Scouting to simply Perception. Perception is a skill name very very well known to the RPG community as a whole as the defacto skill name for passive awareness. Likewise, you could that call the skill Awareness instead as that also is used in some games when referring to passive detection.
With passive, I mean that a town guard for example don't know that there is a thief that tries to sneak by him. He is on guard duty obviously, so he tries to be aware of his surroundings while he patrols. He simply walks up and down the streets.

In YZE-games they have the skill scouting (can be named differently in some of them) and that is used exactly like this. It is mostly used to detect when sneaking people that tries to ambush you sneak by you or to detect a pickpocket that tries to take your silver and it can also be used to observe some enemies at a distance to determine how many they are.
They don't use a skill for searching a room for hidden things in YZE-games, but the old classic DoD had such a skill. So in this game, there is a skill for searching rooms for hidden things like traps, secret doors, small rings in the corner of the room or technically a small creature that is hidden under some stones and bones.

So Spot Hidden is to search rooms for hidden things or an outside area for hidden things (you can hide a belt pouch full of coins outside not just inside), while Scouting is used as your awareness or danger sense against bad people and monsters that are sneaking up on you to do bad things with you and also to check out those orcs of there to see how many they are and perhaps also how well armed they are.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
GeekyReese
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Fri 16 Sep 2022, 23:13

I think the issue is that both Spot Hidden and Scouting sound active rather than passive. Like no one passively scouts. Scouting in every profession where one scouts is something done actively. Every game I know of that has a Scouting skill uses that actively. In fact, of the two, Spot Hidden has the more passive name. But really, please don't use Scouting as a passive skill in the english books as it will confuse the hell out of English speaking tabletop gamers.

I'd recommend instead a name change from Scouting to simply Perception. Perception is a skill name very very well known to the RPG community as a whole as the defacto skill name for passive awareness. Likewise, you could that call the skill Awareness instead as that also is used in some games when referring to passive detection.
With passive, I mean that a town guard for example don't know that there is a thief that tries to sneak by him. He is on guard duty obviously, so he tries to be aware of his surroundings while he patrols. He simply walks up and down the streets.

In YZE-games they have the skill scouting (can be named differently in some of them) and that is used exactly like this. It is mostly used to detect when sneaking people that tries to ambush you sneak by you or to detect a pickpocket that tries to take your silver and it can also be used to observe some enemies at a distance to determine how many they are.
They don't use a skill for searching a room for hidden things in YZE-games, but the old classic DoD had such a skill. So in this game, there is a skill for searching rooms for hidden things like traps, secret doors, small rings in the corner of the room or technically a small creature that is hidden under some stones and bones.

So Spot Hidden is to search rooms for hidden things or an outside area for hidden things (you can hide a belt pouch full of coins outside not just inside), while Scouting is used as your awareness or danger sense against bad people and monsters that are sneaking up on you to do bad things with you and also to check out those orcs of there to see how many they are and perhaps also how well armed they are.
Though I am am still unconvinced at this time for the necessity to have 2 Search type skills considering the simplicity of the rest of the system. It just... bogs it down and makes things overly complicated. RAW (Rules As Written) currently gives poor examples for the use of both skills. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the final release.

Fenhorn, your explanations have been very thorough and are greatly appreciated. :) Are you part of the development team?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Sat 17 Sep 2022, 00:01

<>
Fenhorn, your explanations have been very thorough and are greatly appreciated. :) Are you part of the development team?
Just a moderator here, but I am old enough to have played various DoD games from the 80s and 90s as well as a lot of the YZE-games (like Mutant: Year Zero, Forbidden Lands, etc.) so I have over the years here learned a thing or two how they like to do things.

Like I said above, the search room skill - Spot Hidden, is actually not a skill that appears very often in FLs other games, but it is a classic skill from the original game and it fits a game where you actually do find hidden treasures and fantastic traps in dungeons.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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VorpalMace
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Sat 17 Sep 2022, 07:56

I understand the difference between them and I would have no issue with having separate Spot Hidden and Scouting skills (heck, I love Stormbringer which has far more Perception skills) if the non-combat skill list had 20+ items. With such a small skill list though - that also only one CHA skill on it so far! - it feels redundant, that's why I say they should be merged to give place to other areas not covered by skills yet.

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