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Logen_Nein
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sat 03 Sep 2022, 20:22

I was going to start a thread on initiative but then found this thread.
So it seems like the advantage to going early in the round is that you get to deliver damage quickly and maybe take out the bad guys before they can attack. The advantage to going late in the round is that you can use your action to parry, or to attack if the bad guys missed.
Does that oversimplify things? I'm worried that my players will all try to move to later actions so that they have the parry option, and that nobody will want to go early.
Based on my playtesting heavy ranged damage dealers (Aodhan and Orla) want to act quickly, tactical melee damage dealers (Krissana and Bastonn) will wait until their tanks (Makander) get into position.

Waiting for the foe to act is a losing strategy, particularly group (which will gang up on targets).
 
magustrate
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sat 03 Sep 2022, 20:36

So, I agree with all that you've said here, although I don't quite get how waiting works in relation to whether you draw low vs high each round. Perhaps you could explain a bit?
Also though, Monsters always hit? Is that right? If that just Monsters that don't wield weapons, sorta similar to FL, or...? Please explain here, because that could spell TPK real quickly unless I'm mistaken.
Thnx a lot! It's great so far though, with a few typos of course, as expected naturally, and a paragraph disjointed that I found.
The monsters always hit thing is brilliant. It means that there's a clock on combat with a monster. Each round will get more dangerous. While some of the monster attacks allow saves, most do some damage which means you are under pressure to move that combat forward. When I ran a test combat it really incentivized Pushing. I feel like the combat really sang with that alternate rule.
I was going to start a thread on initiative but then found this thread.
So it seems like the advantage to going early in the round is that you get to deliver damage quickly and maybe take out the bad guys before they can attack. The advantage to going late in the round is that you can use your action to parry, or to attack if the bad guys missed.
Does that oversimplify things? I'm worried that my players will all try to move to later actions so that they have the parry option, and that nobody will want to go early.
If they do that they'll be playing very defensively and may be allowing their opponents to choose targets and will be sacrificing their own damage on the chance of mitigating damage. It's a strategy that might work best against foes that work under PC rules. None of the monsters in the quickstart parry or dodge (but the rules imply some will have that ability) it does lose a little punch against them since if you all had the ability to go first you might be able to focus down the monster.
 
magustrate
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sat 03 Sep 2022, 20:41

A question I have about Dodging. What's the downside of being prone? Since that's a core part of dodging (falling prone) what does it do? Can you not dodge? Do opponents get a Boon on their strike against you? Do you force an opponent to make a Mobility roll to get away without being attacked?

I sort of homeruled that a monster could walk over you after dodging and falling prone to get to those squishy ranged fighters but it's not supported by the rules, per se.
 
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Logen_Nein
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sat 03 Sep 2022, 20:58

A question I have about Dodging. What's the downside of being prone? Since that's a core part of dodging (falling prone) what does it do? Can you not dodge? Do opponents get a Boon on their strike against you? Do you force an opponent to make a Mobility roll to get away without being attacked?

I sort of homeruled that a monster could walk over you after dodging and falling prone to get to those squishy ranged fighters but it's not supported by the rules, per se.
It is unclear, but I would say (as you have stated) that while you are prone you can't make a free attack (nor force a Mobility roll) against a target moving past (or through) you. I would also rule that if you are knocked prone while still having your action you cannot dodge or parry.
 
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Kaybe
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Tue 13 Sep 2022, 18:54

In your opinion, are Reactions too punishing from an action economy perspective? You sacrifice your entire turn for a chance to avoid damage instead of sacrificing one of two actions like in Forbidden Lands, also often against monsters who always hit. On top of that, parrying risks breaking your weapon, and dodging always makes you fall prone.

That being said, unlike Forbidden Lands, you react *after* getting hit (but before damage dice are rolled) instead of calling it before the attack is rolled.

I'm on the fence with this mechanic, so hoping for comments for or against.
 
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Logen_Nein
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Tue 13 Sep 2022, 19:15

In your opinion, are Reactions too punishing from an action economy perspective? You sacrifice your entire turn for a chance to avoid damage instead of sacrificing one of two actions like in Forbidden Lands, also often against monsters who always hit. On top of that, parrying risks breaking your weapon, and dodging always makes you fall prone.

That being said, unlike Forbidden Lands, you react *after* getting hit (but before damage dice are rolled) instead of calling it before the attack is rolled.

I'm on the fence with this mechanic, so hoping for comments for or against.
Honestly in running mock combats with all 5 pregens I love it. Against single, dangerous monsters (the Giant Spider for example) putting a tank up front to dodge, parry and protect as needed is a no brainer. As others have said having only one action makes every round count in my view, and I think players will be similarly satisfied with the speed and tactics of the system. Against groups of humaniod foes it also works, as they will also have to make decisions about attacking or using reactions to protect themselves (which I did in my playtesting with a simple combat action randomizer).
Bottom line, I think it works great all round.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Tue 13 Sep 2022, 19:22

Combat is very tactical and I think it worked well. The players need to think and really work together. I like that init swapping rule.
Something to remember is that the players will learn heroic abilities every now and then (we don't know exactly how yet) and that will affect what the characters can do.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
Bonzzo15
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sat 17 Sep 2022, 23:19

When I first read it I was worried that turning your cards in every round would get tedious, that’s not the case? Not yet tried it out in game :)
 
jalexandratos
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sun 18 Sep 2022, 03:44

When I first read it I was worried that turning your cards in every round would get tedious, that’s not the case? Not yet tried it out in game :)
My players really like this mechanism. They called it “crisp” and said it really makes a new round feel “new.”
 
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Melvin
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Re: Some thoughts on combat…

Sun 18 Sep 2022, 09:12

When you are used to pathfinder 1 or d&d, yes you may fear that it will be tedious. But with only one action, it's fine. More than that, there is some funny stress, desire, to get a good card each turn. Like a mini wheel of fortune each turn, or a dice roll for initiative but... Here you pick a card. It s just luck but in the head of a player, you think you can do something by choosing a card (hidden), like rolling your dice in a manner that you think will be good for you... But in reality it's only luck. :-D

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