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magustrate
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 23:54

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 00:00

On page 19 under Torches there is a reference to "cantrips" which doesn't appear anywhere else in the rules. "Lighting a torch is an action and requires a tinderbox or a fire to light it with, or the cantrip Ignite (page 25)."

Should this be referencing "magic tricks" instead?
 
MrToadZ
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 01:28

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 01:41

Thank you for the Quickstart, it looks a lot of fun. I am presently enjoying the older Trudvang version, which is quite different to Dragonbane.

Apprecaiting that the game has been extensively played throughout its long illustrious history, one thing that immediately jumped out to me was the action economy, and that a character only gets a move and one action (or reaction). Why did you go for this rather than granting one action and one reaction a round? Or even multiple combat actions with incremental penalties?
To avoid "ping-pong" battles and with the more dynamic initiative system have more tight actions filled with risk-taking (or not). That is part of the reason, if I remember various interviews correctly.
Well, frankly, it seems to me that this decision will just turn fights into slogs, as well as "going last" the winning tactic here, since deciding if you're going to parry or hit after your opponent has acted seems to be the best course of action if you want to stay alive.
Also, it seems to reward focus firing an opponent (or a character), which would definitely make the game decidedly less fun for the focused party, as they get to either act or try and survive (which would probably be the most sensible choice).
I sincerly hope when the full rules come out there's a way to increase the number of action a character gets, especially considering that most RPGS often see the heroes outnumbered.

Thanks for the clarification, anyway! :)
I would have to agree here, you end up in strange situations with 1 action systems. Another example of a problem being, is there even a point to dual-wielding?

What I have previously played (which Ill likely be playing regardless of the rules) is that you have 1 melee action for each weapon/shield.
Example:
(one-handed weapon + shield): 1 attack or parry and 1 block (or shield slam I guess)
(2x one-handed weapon): 1 attack or parry with each weapon
(two-handed weapon): 1 attack or parry

I personally think its a good idea to err on the side of defensives, so you can attempt to block or parry until you are no longer able, reducing your skill by something between 5 to 7 for each action exceeding your primary actions. This reduces passive moments in combat and makes it more interactive when fighting more than one enemy.
 
magustrate
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 23:54

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 03:00

I would have to agree here, you end up in strange situations with 1 action systems. Another example of a problem being, is there even a point to dual-wielding?
There's a few points to dual wielding. You can move between damage types if needed. A mace in one hand for bashing skeletons and longsword for slashing through leather armor. If you parry with a weapon and it breaks you can use your other weapon.
I personally think its a good idea to err on the side of defensives, so you can attempt to block or parry until you are no longer able, reducing your skill by something between 5 to 7 for each action exceeding your primary actions. This reduces passive moments in combat and makes it more interactive when fighting more than one enemy.
I think this would really end up making combat a slog. As it stands you have to make a choice each time you're attacked or on your turn. Do you wait? Do you attack? Do you parry this time or hope the enemy rolls low? One benefit of the system is that you always know if you hit. did you roll under the right skill? Hit. Your system would add a lot of complication.

I just ran a quick trial combat with 2 PCs against 3 goblins (from Grub in the book) and wrapped it up in 5 rounds. I liked the feel of choosing should I parry or push my luck.
 
rennarda
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri 20 Dec 2019, 15:28

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:52

A couple of the weapons that the sample characters carry have the 'toppling' feature, but there's no explanation of what this does.

I feel like it would be nice to differentiate the magic tricks from the other spells - I didn't realise 'ignite' was just a trick, and not some kind of combat attack spell!
 
Banquo
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 11:32

With the action economy in combat (characters get a single action), is the intent that in one-vs-many fights where a character faces multiple NPC enemies (such as a group of goblins or bandits) the NPCs use the “help from others” rule, providing a bonus die to a primary attacker rather than all rolling attack and damage?
With the ranges of damage, armour and hit points it seems two/ three small enemies will quickly overpower a character; but if they provide a bonus to a single NPC the character can keep fighting the group attempting to whittle down the numbers one at a time, which seems more epic to me (but still has a real danger and decisions around parry/attack with your action).
 
Ilsador
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 14:20

In the adventure, there are a few places that refer to bonuses or penalties to rolls but don't indicate what those bonuses or penalties might be, for example, at area 2. Shaft - "Each player character must make a MOBILITY roll to climb down. A rope gives a bonus to the roll." Does this mean it gives a boon to the roll? Similarly, the stat block for The Lady states that she is "Persuadable: As opposed to most monsters, it is possible to PERSUADE a ghost, but with a penalty." Does this mean a bane?

Regarding initiative - I can see some potential problems with only having 10 cards with monsters that have more than one action per turn (which, by the way, is a feature that I think is excellent). I currently have a group that has six players, which would take up 6 cards, then say we encounter a monster with a speed of 3, along with another one with a speed of 2 and some minor types that only get one action per turn - that's 11 counts for the round. I don't know how the game scales at this point so maybe this is not something that happens, but even in the adventure it might be possible to be using all 10 if you use all the player characters and they befriend Grub and then encounter The Lady and The Death Knight at the same time (not a good time for the players, but possible), as they both have a speed of 2.

Related to initiative - I'm wondering how you handle this situation: the knight is up front fighting the spider. He goes first, but he wants to parry on his turn as his parry is better than his dodge, but he's not been attacked yet, so there's nothing to parry - does he ready an action and wait? Does he trade with the spider in the hopes that the spider will attack him with something he can parry? I like the one action per Round concept - I think combat will move along quite quickly, I just don't know how you make sure you get to do the things you want to do if that makes sense.

Regarding Parry - why isn't there a shield skill? Seems silly in a game that has parry not to have a skill that deals with it directly, especially when I can see sword and board warriors being quite useful. I guess using your weapon skill means you only have to skill up one skill - but you could also allow the shield to be used as a weapon to knock monsters down, or back. Just a thought.

My only other question, or comment, is that I would have liked a little more information in the quickstart on how the characters progress. Is this a levelled game? I didn't see a place for a character's level on the pregen sheets, so I'm thinking it's not. I see classes maybe (professions), but I really want to know more. I guess that's the main problem, I really want to get my hands on the book! Can't wait to see it. Love the art by the way too.
 
Clevername
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2022, 19:39

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 14:49

Where are the “Derived Ratings” chart or info.? So far Attributes don’t do anything in the game.
 
Serafino_Gubbio
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 14:35

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 14:55

In the adventure, there are a few places that refer to bonuses or penalties to rolls but don't indicate what those bonuses or penalties might be, for example, at area 2. Shaft - "Each player character must make a MOBILITY roll to climb down. A rope gives a bonus to the roll." Does this mean it gives a boon to the roll? Similarly, the stat block for The Lady states that she is "Persuadable: As opposed to most monsters, it is possible to PERSUADE a ghost, but with a penalty." Does this mean a bane?

Regarding initiative - I can see some potential problems with only having 10 cards with monsters that have more than one action per turn (which, by the way, is a feature that I think is excellent). I currently have a group that has six players, which would take up 6 cards, then say we encounter a monster with a speed of 3, along with another one with a speed of 2 and some minor types that only get one action per turn - that's 11 counts for the round. I don't know how the game scales at this point so maybe this is not something that happens, but even in the adventure it might be possible to be using all 10 if you use all the player characters and they befriend Grub and then encounter The Lady and The Death Knight at the same time (not a good time for the players, but possible), as they both have a speed of 2.

Related to initiative - I'm wondering how you handle this situation: the knight is up front fighting the spider. He goes first, but he wants to parry on his turn as his parry is better than his dodge, but he's not been attacked yet, so there's nothing to parry - does he ready an action and wait? Does he trade with the spider in the hopes that the spider will attack him with something he can parry? I like the one action per Round concept - I think combat will move along quite quickly, I just don't know how you make sure you get to do the things you want to do if that makes sense.

Regarding Parry - why isn't there a shield skill? Seems silly in a game that has parry not to have a skill that deals with it directly, especially when I can see sword and board warriors being quite useful. I guess using your weapon skill means you only have to skill up one skill - but you could also allow the shield to be used as a weapon to knock monsters down, or back. Just a thought.

My only other question, or comment, is that I would have liked a little more information in the quickstart on how the characters progress. Is this a levelled game? I didn't see a place for a character's level on the pregen sheets, so I'm thinking it's not. I see classes maybe (professions), but I really want to know more. I guess that's the main problem, I really want to get my hands on the book! Can't wait to see it. Love the art by the way too.
I assumed that penalty means bane (maybe a work in progress term that slipped the revision?), but yes, I see some term inconsistencies.

The game is meant to be played by 2 to 5 players (plus master).
That being said I get your point, but could the 10 cards limit be for balance purpose, to avoid too many enemy turns?

The knight can wait, swapping his initiative card with another character, either ally or foe (page 11).

Having a separated skill for shield feels to me like an unnecessary complication, considering how we already have plenty.

I read somewhere that there are no levels, but you can enhance the skills (in the quickstart is stated that "Roleplaying according to your Motivation allows your player character to increase their skills faster").
 
Ilsador
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 15:20

In the adventure, there are a few places that refer to bonuses or penalties to rolls but don't indicate what those bonuses or penalties might be, for example, at area 2. Shaft - "Each player character must make a MOBILITY roll to climb down. A rope gives a bonus to the roll." Does this mean it gives a boon to the roll? Similarly, the stat block for The Lady states that she is "Persuadable: As opposed to most monsters, it is possible to PERSUADE a ghost, but with a penalty." Does this mean a bane?

Regarding initiative - I can see some potential problems with only having 10 cards with monsters that have more than one action per turn (which, by the way, is a feature that I think is excellent). I currently have a group that has six players, which would take up 6 cards, then say we encounter a monster with a speed of 3, along with another one with a speed of 2 and some minor types that only get one action per turn - that's 11 counts for the round. I don't know how the game scales at this point so maybe this is not something that happens, but even in the adventure it might be possible to be using all 10 if you use all the player characters and they befriend Grub and then encounter The Lady and The Death Knight at the same time (not a good time for the players, but possible), as they both have a speed of 2.

Related to initiative - I'm wondering how you handle this situation: the knight is up front fighting the spider. He goes first, but he wants to parry on his turn as his parry is better than his dodge, but he's not been attacked yet, so there's nothing to parry - does he ready an action and wait? Does he trade with the spider in the hopes that the spider will attack him with something he can parry? I like the one action per Round concept - I think combat will move along quite quickly, I just don't know how you make sure you get to do the things you want to do if that makes sense.

Regarding Parry - why isn't there a shield skill? Seems silly in a game that has parry not to have a skill that deals with it directly, especially when I can see sword and board warriors being quite useful. I guess using your weapon skill means you only have to skill up one skill - but you could also allow the shield to be used as a weapon to knock monsters down, or back. Just a thought.

My only other question, or comment, is that I would have liked a little more information in the quickstart on how the characters progress. Is this a levelled game? I didn't see a place for a character's level on the pregen sheets, so I'm thinking it's not. I see classes maybe (professions), but I really want to know more. I guess that's the main problem, I really want to get my hands on the book! Can't wait to see it. Love the art by the way too.
I assumed that penalty means bane (maybe a work in progress term that slipped the revision?), but yes, I see some term inconsistencies.

The game is meant to be played by 2 to 5 players (plus master).
That being said I get your point, but could the 10 cards limit be for balance purpose, to avoid too many enemy turns?

The knight can wait, swapping his initiative card with another character, either ally or foe (page 11).

Having a separated skill for shield feels to me like an unnecessary complication, considering how we already have plenty.

I read somewhere that there are no levels, but you can enhance the skills (in the quickstart is stated that "Roleplaying according to your Motivation allows your player character to increase their skills faster").
The 10-card limit for balance may be there for balance, that's a good point.

I missed the swapping of cards, thanks.

Skill increases only - so in that regard it might be somewhat like The One Ring - which my group loves.

I can't wait to actually play the quickstart, looks like fun.
 
Serafino_Gubbio
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 14:35

Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 31 Aug 2022, 16:57

Where are the “Derived Ratings” chart or info.? So far Attributes don’t do anything in the game.
Derived Ratings are not in the quickstart.
For now, the only direct use of attributes that I saw are:
- Fear: "When struck by a fear attack you must immediately make a roll against your base Willpower attribute.".
- Death: "Death Roll: On your turn in each subsequent Round, you must make a death roll – a roll against your Constitution attribute."

But we kinda can guess some of the interaction:

Max Health Points = Constitution
Max Willpower Points = Willpower

Weapon Skills are either half STR or AGI, or the full value if the character has some kind of proficiency in it (I'm guessing here).
All the other skills are trickier, since I don't see a clear pattern, so they could involve some other modifiers (maybe random ones?).
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