Antaean
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Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 02:04

I hope someone here can help. I am trying to understand how the official rules are applied regarding prolonged rests and fatigue point recovery.

Page 111 says the players restore 1 point of fatigue for each prolonged rest in a sheltered and safe refuge (i.e. not on the road)

Page 71 says the company can take a single prolonged rest each day and that the LM may allow the group to take more than one prolonged rest if they are in a safe and comfortable place.

Both italicised terms are different and I would like to know how these are officially interpreted in the game as it isn't clear to me and I could not find any definitions of these terms in the official rulebook.

I am trying to understand why an uninterrupted prolonged rest should not simply automatically recover a point of fatigue? It would certainly be clearer.

The problem I have is that these can be interpreted in multiple ways by multiple people. Right now, some could say that a sheltered and safe refuge "off the road" is basically a tent in a forest/cave/ruin/*insert-non-road-location-here with one of the party acting as watchman to provide the safety. Alternatively, some could say that "off the road" means close to a welcoming town or region, so when the players are adventuring in a desolate area they will never recover fatigue after a prolonged rest. Alternatively, some may say that "sheltered" means in a cave or ruin, so the party are going to spend every travel session looking for caves or ruins. The LM will have final say obviously, but for something related to a key character mechanic this should be simpler and clearer IMHO.

Any help in how prolonged rests and fatigue point recovery are supposed to work officially would be greatly appreciated

Personally, i'd like to see recovery of 1 fatigue after the successful completion of a prolonged rest included on Page 71, with a reference to page 71 on Page 111 and the "in a sheltered and safe refuge (i.e. not 'on the road')"" text deleted.
 
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Rafamir
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 05:01

Maybe Michele can weigh in here. How I'm playing it is you recover 1 Fatigue per day when you take a prolonged rest in a safe place. I'm confused by page 71's reference to 'more than one prolonged rest.' I had flipped past that thinking it referred to taking multiple days of rest to regain multiple Fatigue points. Your pointing to it makes me think Rivendell would be the sort of place where one could recover more than one Fatigue point a day, provided you don't get pulled into one of Elrond's interminable councils.

I've used fortuitous encounters (e.g. spending a night in the darker parts of Mirkwood with a hunting party of Wayward Elves) to allow prolonged rests 'on the road.' I would not, in such a case, allow multiple prolonged rests.
 
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Pangea
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 09:28

how the official rules are applied regarding prolonged rests and fatigue point recovery
You are asking about Fatigue, correct?
Because, your reference to--
Page 71 says the company can take a single prolonged rest each day and that the LM may allow the group to take more than one prolonged rest if they are in a safe and comfortable place.
--concerns Endurance.
Page 71 has the info' on Resting for regaining Endurance points, and the two types of Rests (Short & Prolonged) and the fact that you normally can have a Short (like a lunch break) and a Prolonged (like a night's sleep), but that you might be able to have more than one Prolonged (I imagine if you do not Travel and rest all day you could get two?) or sometimes are unable to take a Short one (bad conditions, no midday rest?).
Whereas--
Page 111 says the players restore 1 point of fatigue for each prolonged rest in a sheltered and safe refuge (i.e. not on the road)
--is the one that is specific to Fatigue.
Thus the slight difference in wording?

As I read it, the Player-heroes can get 1 Fatigue back when they make a Prolonged rest-- probably following the Endurance rules for that rest.

For me, I would let the PCs have more than one Prolonged rest per day (for Fatigue or Endurance, or both) if they rest all day, and it is in a safe enough area.
Meaning that this would stop their Journey if they are moving along, or would prevent them from Hunting doing things etc..

I see the rules as being quite clear: normally you can have one short rest (like a midday break) and one prolonged rest (like a night's sleep) per day, but you cannot do it if out moving along on a travel, or if not stopping in a place you feel safe in... so, use the base rules, and adapt according to circumstances. Like the fine example of "ending a night in the darker parts of Mirkwood with a hunting party of Wayward Elves".
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Antaean
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 10:24

Sorry if my post was unclear. I referenced prolonged rest for endurance on page 71 because a prolonged rest is required to recover fatigue as highlighted on page 111.

My point is the recovery of a single point of fatigue should be upon the completion of a prolonged rest. A prolonged rest can be taken anywhere. It is not tied into ambiguous requirements such as those on page 111 that are open to interpretation for the reasons I highlighted in my original post. One person will interpret it one way. One person another.

I don't see a reason that a character can spend a nights sleep "anywhere" and recover full endurance but the recovery of a single point of fatigue is tied to a requirement to be "in a sheltered and safe refuge (i.e. not 'on the road')". For me, if you sleep all night without interruption then you should recover a single point of fatigue. I believe that is how the rules are supposed to work but that is not how they are written on page 111, hence the need for some clarity.
 
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Michele
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 11:56

I'll try to clarify here, although both Rafamir and Pangea already provided the correct interpretation.

The rules on page 71 say:

PROLONGED REST: Under normal circumstances, the Company is allowed to take a single Prolonged Rest each day (usually, a night’s sleep). The Loremaster may allow the group to take more than one Prolonged Rest if the Player-heroes are recovering in a safe and comfortable place.

This is the general rule for Prolonged Rests. You can take a Prolonged Rest anywhere, BUT you can only take multiple, consecutive Prolonged Rests when you are recovering in a safe and comfortable place. Given that a single Prolonged Rest is equivalent to a night's sleep (6 to 8 hours), a Loremaster may allow up to 3 or 4 consecutive Prolonged Rests per day spent in a safe and comfortable location. However, if you are not recovering in a safe or comfortable place (i.e. on the road, in a cave, in a forest etc.) you are only allowed to take a single Prolonged Rest per day (probably due to external disturbances or weather conditions,or simply because the characters also have to spend time taking care of the camp, looking for firewood, hunting and gathering herbs, etc.).

On page 111, the rules say:

[...] Any remaining Fatigue is recorded on the character sheets of the affected Player-heroes. They will get rid of it at the rate of 1 point of Fatigue for each following Prolonged Rest they take in a sheltered and safe refuge (i.e.: not ‘on the road’).

These rules specifically refer to getting rid of Fatigue: they simply say that, in most cases, you cannot recover Fatigue during Journeys. "On the road" means just that. A cave could be sheltered, but it's probably not safe; a forest guarded by the Elves is perhaps safe, but it's not sheltered. A "sheltered and safe" refuge should be at least a settlement, an inn, or a well-defended farmhouse: and it will likely be the destination of your journey.
Once you're there, you can recover Fatigue at the rate of 1 point per Prolonged Rest, which, combined with the rules above, could allow you to recover even 3-4 points of Fatigue if characters decide to rest for 24 hours (1 for each Prolonged Rest).

I hope this has made the rules clearer!
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
Asgo
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 12:04

first and foremost fatigue is a mechanical tool for journeys: page 69
FATIGUE
Travelling causes the Player- heroes to accumulate
Fatigue points, representing a form of exhaustion
caused by protracted loss of sleep and the general
discomfort of spending days in the open. Fatigue
enters play exclusively in conjunction with the
rules for journeys (see page 108).
When gained, Fatigue points temporarily
raise a travelling Player- hero’s total Load,
effectively making it easier to become
Weary.
If you check the journey events table on page 112 together with the marching rules ( events only every 1-3+ days in normal terrain) you can see that on average you would recover more fatigue than you gain except for really bad luck when you would count every uninterrupted sleep.

The idea is to mechanically distinguish safe havens and motivate spending time there, which again motivates route and journey planning.

Thematically, endurance is the short term recuperation more on the physical side while fatigue is more the mental component of stress of continued discomfort and wariness.
you can have an uninterrupted night in endurance terms even if you spend hours on watch or don't sleep that much due to stress, but it won't be comfortable long term.
Of course its the LM prerogative to make the distinguishing line on what counts as what, and I personally would count a journey through familiar terrain less stressful and would allow certain places as "safe" that I wouldn't in unknown terrain even if it could be technically described as an equivalent location - just for the subjective element of feeling safe, e.g., Hobbits in the Shire vs. Hobbits on the road between Bree and Rivendell.

As a real world example, I would regain endurance each night on a vacation tour with full sightseeing program each day, but I would need some relaxing stationary days at the beach in the end to regain the fatigue that cost. :)
 
Antaean
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 13:38

Thanks for the replies and clarifications.

For me, the rules on page 71 were clear. I never had any issue with those and to clarify I never meant recovering fatigue during the journey.

My concern is with load, how fatigue adds to load at the end of a journey when it transfers to character sheets and the inability to remove this transferred fatigue if the adventurers do not finish their journey at an Inn or "safe place" - for example travelling to an inhospitable area, such as the Ice bay of Farochel, the Lone Lands, Angmar, etc.

My understanding of what has just been clarified is that when the players arrive at the destination of their journey in a case where the final destination is not a safe and sheltered place, that the steps on page 111 are followed and the remaining fatigue transfers to the player, adding to their load. This increased fatigue load will stay with them for their entire adventure as permanent load and cumulate on the return journey (if the journey rules are used again) with no means of removing the fatigue during a prolonged rest until the players arrive at a safe and sheltered place (Inn, etc).

Or, did I misunderstand and are we simply saying that once the journey phase is finished, 1 point of fatigue is recovered during a prolonged rest?
 
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Michele
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 15:33

My understanding of what has just been clarified is that when the players arrive at the destination of their journey in a case where the final destination is not a safe and sheltered place, that the steps on page 111 are followed and the remaining fatigue transfers to the player, adding to their load. This increased fatigue load will stay with them for their entire adventure as permanent load and cumulate on the return journey (if the journey rules are used again) with no means of removing the fatigue during a prolonged rest until the players arrive at a safe and sheltered place (Inn, etc).

That is the correct interpretation. Let's say that the Fellowship has reached its destination, the ruins of a watchtower in the lost realm of Angmar: after the journey Fatigue has been calculated (subtracting the Vigour rating of any mount, and after the end of journey Travel roll), that Fatigue will remain until the Player-heroes will go back to a safe and sheltered place (Bree, a Ranger outpost, etc.). While they are exploring the ruins, they will be able to perform Prolonged Rests to recover Endurance, but none of these rests will allow them to reduce their accumulated Fatigue, since they are not made in a safe or sheltered location.

I guess that now the Cram, Bree Pony and Endurance of the Ranger Virtues look much more interesting than they initially appeared, don't they? ;)
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
Asgo
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 15:40

...
My concern is with load, how fatigue adds to load at the end of a journey when it transfers to character sheets and the inability to remove this transferred fatigue if the adventurers do not finish their journey at an Inn or "safe place" - for example travelling to an inhospitable area, such as the Ice bay of Farochel, the Lone Lands, Angmar, etc.

My understanding of what has just been clarified is that when the players arrive at the destination of their journey in a case where the final destination is not a safe and sheltered place, that the steps on page 111 are followed and the remaining fatigue transfers to the player, adding to their load. This increased fatigue load will stay with them for their entire adventure as permanent load and cumulate on the return journey (if the journey rules are used again) with no means of removing the fatigue during a prolonged rest until the players arrive at a safe and sheltered place (Inn, etc).
...
from my understanding that is the intended function of the fatigue rule, that if you move from a fatiguing journey directly into a combat scenario the fatigue has a detrimental impact on your efficiency.

again, the LM has a bit of leeway to define what under the current circumstances counts as a "safe and comfortable" place.
For example, if your party set out from Bree traveling to Annuminas to investigate the ruins there, I wouldn't bet on them finding an Inn or other signs of civilization there.
However depending on the overall risk of the region they are traveling, I probably would allow them to spend some time (more than you would have at the end of a day during a journey) to find a safe space to rest for a day or so. You can always add a Explore or similar skill check on top of that. And if you really want to make it difficult make the search a Skill Endeavour with the whole party involved.
Personally, that would also be a good lever to scale the overall tension and difficulty depending on where they are geographically as well as in terms of outside threats.
 
Antaean
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Re: Prolonged rest and fatigue point restoration

Wed 02 Mar 2022, 16:28

Excellent - thanks for confirming this clarification. I am not sure people were aware of it working in this way - I for one certainly wasn't so thanks!

It's good to know this is how the rules were designed so thanks for taking the time to clarify it. I don't personally agree with the clarification - it feels illogical that if a player sleeps for 6-8 hours straight and recovers all their endurance (or strength level if wounded) that they would be as fatigued as they were before they slept - but if this is how it was designed that's fine and glad to have it clarified.

Following this clarification we will definitely be homebrewing for our group so that when a player takes an uninterrupted prolonged rest in addition to the normal rules they will recover 1 point of fatigue.

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