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Currently we are all waiting to see what if any changes the Beta rules will bring, so expected to debate to ramp up then.

"Oh, there's 33 pages on the discussion on ammo dice... I wonder what has sparked this long discussion"

*opens page 33... sees nothing but a discussion about persuasion*

"Ah... that explains it".

To be fair, it started as a discussion how the Suppressed result from the Ammo dice could affect Persuasion/Morale in combat, which is in keeping, albeit slightly tangentially, with Ammo dice and their effects.

In fact this thread is 33 pages of failed Persuasion rolls

Ha. Disregarding a core concept: you can't just try the same action again and again under the same circumstances.

...the same action again and again...

Isn't that the definition of insanity? So are we bringing in CoC rules now?

...the same action again and again...

Isn't that the definition of insanity? So are we bringing in CoC rules now?

Of course. Twilight Nightmares FTW!

Joining this conversation late.
We ran our first game this weekend. The group rolled starting chars and gear. Between 4 players they rolled a total of 12 clips total. That includes the ammo from the group starter choices.

We discussed the possibility of resupply (non existent). And how the players would treasure each round. Discussed the ammo rules for the ammo dice then agreed they burned ammo way to fast. One firefight had a high chance of burning most of there ammo even with limiting to one die. So basically we decided they just didn’t make sense for us and switched to a different system

For their m16. Single fire was one round per ammo die. Burst fire was up to 3 ammo die but one round per die. Auto was Up to 3 ammo die and used the number of rounds of the amount rolled. Only auto fire caused suppression effects. This allowed them to conserve ammo but give up suppression. Or choice to rock n roll to pin hostiles down.

The more I’ve read from this discussion. The more convinced I would keep this house rule. If you know your not getting ressuply and when your clips run out your carrying a large club. Your not not gonna burn ammo like that. And anyone’s that survived three years of war. Well they would be vets by now. The last four survivors of a platoon are either the really lucky or the really careful ones who have learned the hard lesions.

I also hope that we misread read the group fire for npcs. They can combine their ammo die to focus fire and bring down a target if needed. So a five man squad focusing on that scout making a run for it. Are gonna roll 7 to 17 die. (2 die roll plus five to 15 ammo assuming rof 3) and basically burn all their clips due to numbers of 1s rolled. . I really hope I read that wrong. Or disciplined squad fire is basically wild full auto into the sky hoping something hits.

I certainly don't think the rules are perfect, in their pre-release form. But I also don't know if throwing them out entirely before you've even used them makes a lot of sense, either.

Resupply is not actually hard to come by in this world, unless you make it so. My group started out pretty low on ammo, and also throwing ammo dice left and right. Ran low quickly, adapted to using minimal ammo dice in most situations, except in some roleplay-related situations... but also scavenged what they could from the group they encountered. Two encounters later and the support of a local commander and they have a few hundred rounds of 5.45, 7.62, a grenade or two each, and a couple of RPGs. All of this just from picking what they can off of remains -- and it's not like there was a lot there either. So far everyone they've faced has had 2 or 3 mags, max. But hey if you drop a few guys like that quickly, or convince them to surrender, it adds up. My group is currently not worried about ammo (aside from one or two specialty weapons they'd like to use, like the SVD), and have moved on to other worries instead.

I tend to run a fairly dark and high threat game. Most of the battles are chase or hit n run. Until they can get a base of operations or move far enough away from the collapsed front. So taking the time to loot their opponents may not be something they can rely on. I want it to feel like a collapsed front where food ammo and drinkable water are in short supply.

It’s just the play style I tend to run in the few apoc games I’ve run. I really can’t keep that feeling going with the high burn rate of ammo. Not saying the rules as written are bad. They just don’t fit the way our group is approaching the game world.

And my group really enjoyed the play test. And are looking forward to a campaign so overall I’m happy with the game. Just will tweak it a bit to fit my world image is all

Somewhere, repeated many many times in this giant thread is the guidance: hey, you know you don't have to use all of the available RoF, right?

But hey if it's working for you, cool. If the rule applies equally across the board then I guess it's all right.