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joaoperru
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon 19 Oct 2020, 14:46

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Wed 21 Oct 2020, 01:01

About the pin: Pc have to make a panic roll, NPC lose a slow action. Aliens are neither. So i presume that they're not affected. They follow their own rules, like monsters in Forbidden Lands.
Everyone obviously can think what he prefers, but what i'm saying here is that:
Alien can and ARE deadly even if you presume that soldiers with their weapons can kill them like in Aliens. It's written that normal people could just dream about getting hands upon a military weapon, so the "magic" of the horror, fear, terror of the civilian character holding an improvised weapon or a simple civilian gun it's already there.
I'm just saying that when a combat between marines and aliens will finally come i think that following the rules will be very weird. Colonial marines are only portraied in "Aliens" and it makes really no sense to change the overall feeling of it. As a player it would be a let down if it would take some rounds in 3 soldiers to kill just an alien, as i said.
The overall round would be like that, assuming that the marine won the initiative (unlikely because aliens draw 2 initiative cards and act twice as you all know). He shoots, the Alien is wounded, he run to the marine (movement 2... from short to arm's reach), and attack twice. If the armor of the marine kicks in and he's not dead or incapacitated he would have to shove him and shoot, and wounding it again, and again he will recieve other attacks from the beast etc...
I dont really care about bonus dice from panic, full auto, weapon spec as long as they dont reach 30-35 which is the way to go to have some hopes to come out from such a situation. And i'm afraid that this is rather a big problem for me and for those that love the sequel at least the same as the original.
 
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Konungr
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Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Sun 25 Oct 2020, 02:25

So how many here that think the guns are not good enough have actually played the situation? How many are just theory crafting it out here?
 
darl_loh
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Joined: Mon 27 May 2019, 00:54

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Thu 29 Oct 2020, 16:53

My group and I agreed that it was too difficult to kill the ALIENS if we were going for an ALIENS style, action-horror, feel.

When we ran it in that vein (with mostly marine characters and lots of ALIENS to fight), we made it so each additional success on a hit re-applied the weapon's base damage, instead of adding only 1 damage. We didn't playtest this much, but it seemed a decent compromise. For marine type characters with ranged combat focus, it was definitely possible to kill an ALIEN in a single shot, but by no means guaranteed. And, on auto fire, with a pretty good roll, the damage could kill one ALIEN and splash over to another. In this way, a group of a few marines, could, with decent rolls, potentially kill 1.5 to twice their number in ALIENS in a single round of fire.

However, the ALIENS remained dangerous as f&*%. The very first fight, we had five characters (all pretty beef, with upped attributes and 4 talents each) versus 6 soldier ALIENS. They started at long range and managed to shoot down a few of the ALIENS. However, the surviving ALIENS reached them on round 2 and killed the group's commander with the first attack (head bite) before getting gunned down.

RE:Theory Crating...If we hadn't made that rules change, even with veteran characters with the best military hardware (5 characters, all fully-armored, with 3 pulse rifles, a heavy pulse rifle and a smart gun), the 6 ALIENS would have slaughtered them. I don't think that would be in keeping with what we see in the movies.

We played that you couldn't pin down the ALIENS, but you could push them back. There is nothing in the rules that says this wouldn't work. With amenable terrain and concentrated autofire from multiple characters, this is a viable strategy to buy time to kill the ALIENS. It adds an interesting tactical wrinkle to the combat, and, even when using this increased damage rule, should still make the characters scared of being in enclosed spaces with the ALIENS.

The game we ran was a one-shot with the characters being an elite corporate "clean-up" team filled with veteran ex-marines/ex-mercs, so it was appropriate that they were badass. If I was going to use this rule in a campaign, I would probably incorporate a sort of soft "proficiency" rule...maybe something like requiring ranged combat 2 or 3 before the extra damage applies. Or, maybe even requiring the weapon specialist talent with the weapon for the rule to apply. I could see either/both working, depending on how bad-@$$ you wanted the characters to potentially be.
Last edited by darl_loh on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
 
darl_loh
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon 27 May 2019, 00:54

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Thu 29 Oct 2020, 17:02

Thinking about Gorman killing the ALIENS in the air ducts, the rule I proposed above wouldn't work for that (the M4A3 pistol only does 1 damage). However, in that case, I might create a situational/terrain effect. If the ALIEN is crawling towards you through the air duct, its almost impossible NOT to land a headshot with each shot (presuming the character doesn't panic). Movies like AvP and Alien Resurrection definitely show the ALIENS being vulnerable to headshots. In that specific circumstance, I might increase the weapon's base damage by +1 or +2 and give it armor piercing.
 
SharpStyx
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Joined: Fri 30 Oct 2020, 11:17

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Fri 30 Oct 2020, 12:08

Thinking about Gorman killing the ALIENS in the air ducts, the rule I proposed above wouldn't work for that (the M4A3 pistol only does 1 damage). However, in that case, I might create a situational/terrain effect. If the ALIEN is crawling towards you through the air duct, its almost impossible NOT to land a headshot with each shot (presuming the character doesn't panic). Movies like AvP and Alien Resurrection definitely show the ALIENS being vulnerable to headshots. In that specific circumstance, I might increase the weapon's base damage by +1 or +2 and give it armor piercing.

I would argue the rule works without need for further modification. If you rewatch the air duct sequence, Vasquez repeatedly shoots the xenomorph soldier that ambushes her from above with her pistol at point blank range, yet only seems to agitate it. (It flails around a lot as it falls into the shaft alongside her.) She has to pin its head to the side of the duct with her boot and place the pistol directly to its temple (arguably an aimed shot) to pierce the cranium, and that's when the splash of acid washes over her leg and critically wounds her. When Gorman doubles back to Vasquez, he can be seen firing his own pistol at a second soldier bashing its way through a grate from below, and the rounds just bounce off its carapace. He expends an entire magazine to little effect, and that's what prompts him to draw and trigger the grenade. (He knows they're about to horribly die anyway, as the soldiers close in, hissing and gaping their jaws.) Pistols really weren't that effective against xenomorphs in the film, and I'm not sure where folks got the impression that they were.
 
darl_loh
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Joined: Mon 27 May 2019, 00:54

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Fri 30 Oct 2020, 17:32

I think you are right there. I hadn't seen ALIENS in a while, and was going off earlier comments in the thread.

When we played our concern was making the heavy military weapons work as depicted in the films.
 
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Vader
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Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Fri 30 Oct 2020, 23:11

I would argue the rule works without need for further modification. If you rewatch the air duct sequence, Vasquez repeatedly shoots the xenomorph soldier that ambushes her from above with her pistol at point blank range, yet only seems to agitate it. (It flails around a lot as it falls into the shaft alongside her.) She has to pin its head to the side of the duct with her boot and place the pistol directly to its temple (arguably an aimed shot) to pierce the cranium, and that's when the splash of acid washes over her leg and critically wounds her. When Gorman doubles back to Vasquez, he can be seen firing his own pistol at a second soldier bashing its way through a grate from below, and the rounds just bounce off its carapace. He expends an entire magazine to little effect, and that's what prompts him to draw and trigger the grenade. (He knows they're about to horribly die anyway, as the soldiers close in, hissing and gaping their jaws.) Pistols really weren't that effective against xenomorphs in the film, and I'm not sure where folks got the impression that they were.

IIRC, the scene cuts just as we see Gorman start firing at the Alien coming through the grate, and then cuts back to them a bit later, just as Gorman's pistol runs dry, finally allowing the Aliens to (warily) close in on them ... crawling over a bunch of dead comrades; presumably fallen to Gorman's pistol.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
S.M
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat 14 Dec 2019, 06:58

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Sat 31 Oct 2020, 06:23

They're crawling over the one Vasquez emptied her clip into, which is finally dead. The one Gorman fired at was coming from the other direction cutting them off.
 
SharpStyx
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri 30 Oct 2020, 11:17

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Sat 31 Oct 2020, 06:52

IIRC, the scene cuts just as we see Gorman start firing at the Alien coming through the grate, and then cuts back to them a bit later, just as Gorman's pistol runs dry, finally allowing the Aliens to (warily) close in on them ... crawling over a bunch of dead comrades; presumably fallen to Gorman's pistol.

Here is the actual sequence; you can watch it yourself. The timeline is as follows:

0:35 Vasquez drops her rifle, now depleted of ammo, and draws her pistol. She advances a few paces, and a xenomorph soldier descends on her from an overhead shaft. She fires several rounds into it at point blank range. The xenomorph flails wildly as it drops into the duct but does not die. Vasquez pins its head to the side of the duct with her boot and shoots it a few times in the temple, penetrating the skull and causing acid to splash her leg. She crawls away as the soldier continues to flail in its death throes.

0:56 Vasquez is immobilized and grunting in pain and frustration as her leg sizzles. She ejects her pistol magazine, indicating that she had to empty the entire contents into the one soldier to kill it. (Again, at point blank range.) Gorman comes back and finds Vasquez writhing in agony. He gathers her up and tries to drag her to safety.

1:11 A xenomorph soldier bashes its way through a grate from below and starts climbing into the duct. Gorman fires his pistol at it. Bright white sparks can be seen as the rounds deflect off the soldier's carapace.

1:25 Gorman fires his last rounds at the xenormoph soldier. He then looks the other way and sees another soldier climbing over the smoking corpse of the xenomorph Vasquez killed with her pistol. He draws a grenade and places his thumb on the trigger. Vasquez says "You always were and asshole, Gorman." Gorman looks back the way he'd just been shooting and sees a single xenomorph advancing down an otherwise empty duct. This is the same xenomorph that climbed up through the busted grate.

1:35 Gorman presses down on the trigger. Seeing what he's done, Vasquez cups her hands over his as they both await the detonation. There is a close-up shot of a xenomorph opening its jaws to strike, then a tremendous explosion rips through the duct.
 
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Vader
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Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Sat 31 Oct 2020, 14:24

That is certainly one valid interpretation of the scene — it seems I did indeed recall it fairly correctly.

However, what is omitted in the above is that the camera leaves the scene in the air duct between the third and fourth datum points — leaving an opening of time unaccounted-for, where events may occur off-camera. It is for instance not clear that there is indeed only one dead Alien lying in the air duct. Nor do I see any real basis for presenting the identification of one individual Alien in one cut as identical to one in another cut as a statement of absolute truth.

So, while it does present one possible, valid interpretation of the scene, it is not the only one.


But whatever happens or doesn’t happen in between may be debated ad nauseam — the one incontrovertible fact here is this: the Aliens close in on Gorman and Vasquez only after his pistol has run dry.

This is certainly suggestive of that he may actually have been able to hold them off with it until then.

That Vasquez’s antique custom S&W in that case isn’t as effective as Gorman’s service pistol may simply be because it ... well, isn’t.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
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