• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 9
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 4416
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Sweden

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Sun 12 Dec 2021, 00:50

Regarding (some) pictures, yes there is problem nowadays with a lot of browsers on som platforms. I don't know if it is the browsers themselves or if it is an add-on or what it is. For me (I'm using chrome most of the time), I have to right click on some picture and open them in a new tab, then I can see them.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
bfm75
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 20:22

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 12:12

Hi all

ErikModi asked for real game play experience. I'm currently running an Alien campaign, but PCs have yet to face off against Xenomorphs. However, they have been I a firefight with crooked cops, and that ended fatally for one of the PCs, so firearms can be surprising effective. But, earlier I ran Chariot of the Gods, and in that a PC opened fire with a M41A on a some kind of Alien (I won't say which to avoid spoilers) and next to nothing in damage and ran out of ammunition after one attack, my players were quite disappointed and had expected something more from the iconic M41A.

My take on this is that I think the Pluse Rifle is too week, and I think I have comment it this subject before (perhaps on FB or Reddit). Taking Aliens as cannon, what we see is:
Pistols are (almost) useless against adult Xenos
Pulse rifles are effective against adult Xenos, but useless against queen Xenos
Shotguns are somewhat effective (especially shoved into mouth), but as good as a pulse rifle? Probably not.

I've been playing around with some house rules, but haven't settled on anything yet:
- explosive runds: not really sure how to model this, but I might +1 (might higher) to damage done after armor. But then do somekind of increase to Acid Splash
- burst fire at close range: I would add 1 to damage done with any weapon capable of full auto fire for attacks made a short range or closer.
 
User avatar
Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 25 Jan 2022, 15:11

Agreed.

Leaving the pistol issue aside — as noted, interpretations may differ — but going by ALIENS, there can be no question that Pulse Rifles must be highly effective against the Aliens.

Just as an example, the battle in the command centre, an unknown (very large, judging by the motion tracker readout) number of the creatures assault the Marines, and are met with with fire from no more than three PRs plus one pistol. This combined [limited] firepower still keeps the assault at bay, with not a single Alien being able to reach the humans' position — until a few sneak their way to Hudson by crawling under the floor panels (out of the line of fire).
When one Alien advances on Ripley and she manages to fire her own PR, the short burst she fires clearly takes the creature out of action (as also seen in similar encounters later in the atmosphere processor).

The moral here seems to be that as long as you have a PR with ammunition and at least a couple of metres of distance, you have a clear advantage even over a superior number of Aliens. A few rounds will suffice to take one out — basically, as long as you land a hit, you're good.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
leonpoi
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2021, 05:10

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Thu 27 Jan 2022, 02:26

The more I look at it the more I like the idea of extra successes adding damage again rather than +1

BUT - how many extra successes are you likely to get? 2-3 maybe? I’m wondering how it will scale for some of the larger damage weapons and what it means for shooting non-aliens

Also - would armour successes cancel damage or attack successes? I guess keep it as written.

Yes, I think this rule could work. Got to be a bit careful though - eg a shotgun that rolls 3 successes (+2 after 1st) would do 9 damage this way, but with 8-10 armour dice will take this down to about 5 or 6 (with doubled armour). That’s still a lot - and maybe that’s ok!

[edit] - the “problem” seems to me to be that aliens have 50% - 100% more health than humans - so something needs to scale differently if killing them is going to be anything other than very hard work. It’ll simply take 3-4 hits on them to take one out.

An alternate would be to reduce their health - eg halve it (but I prefer the changing the weapon damage house rule)

I’m reflecting on why this isn’t a problem in other games that use this system. I think it’s because either 1) enemies are generally all in the same “human” range, 2) any big nasty baddies are accepted as going to need a lot to take them down, 3) eg in twilight2000, the weapons also have a crit value which is triggered generally if you get more than 1 success when hitting
 
Rye
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 26 May 2022, 05:23

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Thu 26 May 2022, 07:05

Apologies for engaging in thread necromancy, but I think this is a Xenomorph stat issue, not a gun mechanics issue.

The standard Colonial Marine arsenal feels appropriately lethal against human targets. It only feels anemic against Xenomorphs, owing to their armor rating and their health. And that's, I think, the error: while the films certainly establish that the Xenomorphs are resistant to sidearms (the only time handgun fire is shown to do more than ricochet off an alien's carapace is when Vasquez performs a point-blank mag dump directly into the side of one's skull), they do not show them as otherwise being particularly heavily armored or enormously resistant to injury. There are multiple examples throughout the film of aliens quite literally being blown apart by bursts from smartguns or pulse rifles, and there's even some evidence that Hicks' shotgun is effective (while Gorman is having his panic attack in the APC as the team is slaughtered inside the atmosphere processor, the sounds of shotgun blasts followed by aliens screeching come in over his audio feed). The only weapon we don't see actually kill an adult alien is the incinerator, but we can infer (from the queen flailing about in the inferno after Ripley torches the egg chamber) that fire at the very least hurts them.

So I think the Xenomorphs are statted wrong. They're not supposed to be bulletproof killing machines; rather, they're portrayed as fast, stealthy, vicious, and cagey hunters who are at their most lethal when they're able to surprise and/or corner their prey. When forced to assault a well-defended position (e.g., the operations center scene) they use guile and try to overwhelm with weight of numbers precisely because they're not indestructible tanks. I think their armor ratings are way too high -- I think reducing them by as much as half wouldn't be going overboard -- and the health ratings could stand some modest downwards adjustment as well. Thus modified, even individual Xenomorphs would still be terrifyingly-dangerous opponents for groups of civilians armed with crappy improvised weapons (like the Nostromo crew, or the Fury 161 prisoners), but they'd be much more appropriately "killable" by decently-equipped soldiers.
 
User avatar
Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 30 May 2022, 13:57

I believe you are very close to spot on. Yet once again, just a little more diligence in the groundwork would not have gone amiss.

As a side note, let us not forget that the original suggestion to use fire on the Aliens comes from Ash. As it can be ruled out off-hand that Ash would suggest anything that would stand a chance to actually damage them, I believe we may safely assume that fire does little more than annoy the Aliens.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
bfm75
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 20:22

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 30 May 2022, 15:55

I've been woking on a set of house rules to adjust the rule set to closer reflect what we see in Aliens. The house rules are not finalized, but I can share my thinking and reasoning.

- Move from heath to Vaesen/Tales like conditions: I was simply give all adult humans 3 condition boxes (kids could have 2, perhaps). But make the number of boxes dependent on the creature's size and impotents in story. Adult Xeno could have around 4-5, a Queen would have lots!

- Rework full auto a bit: I have make the amount of bonus dice depended on range, a short range add 4-5 dice, medium add 2, longer range wouldn't get any. Guns that are supported, like the smart gun, let them add bonus dice as range being one range closer. On top of that I would add 2 bonus dice for all full auto weapons at short range or below when not using full auto, to reflect burst fire.

- Make xenos more dangerous in close combat: First of, across the board, reduce damage by one for all melee weapons. Then, let xenos block in close combat, and let them counter attack as a stunt.

- Acid blood for narrative effects: Let acid blood eat through the hule of a space craft, destroy critical system on a space station, create smoke or darkness by destroying electrical systems etc.

I think the armor ration for the xenos are ok, especially since the pulse rifle has armor piercing, but they health values are too high.
 
Rye
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 26 May 2022, 05:23

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Fri 10 Jun 2022, 03:27

As a side note, let us not forget that the original suggestion to use fire on the Aliens comes from Ash. As it can be ruled out off-hand that Ash would suggest anything that would stand a chance to actually damage them, I believe we may safely assume that fire does little more than annoy the Aliens.

I think this is dealer's choice, honestly. Certainly Ash had ample reason to lie, but, as I mentioned, the queen doesn't seem merely annoyed when Ripley torches the egg chamber -- she's flailing about in the inferno, as if the fire's really hurting her. So maybe Ash was telling the truth after all. Who can really say? I'd leave it up to individual games if they want fire to be effective.

But I think the whole "bulletproof Xenomorph" thing is just obviously, observably wrong. It doesn't track at all.
 
Midnightplat
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon 13 Jun 2022, 09:48

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 09:59

As a side note, let us not forget that the original suggestion to use fire on the Aliens comes from Ash. As it can be ruled out off-hand that Ash would suggest anything that would stand a chance to actually damage them, I believe we may safely assume that fire does little more than annoy the Aliens.

I think this is dealer's choice, honestly. Certainly Ash had ample reason to lie, but, as I mentioned, the queen doesn't seem merely annoyed when Ripley torches the egg chamber -- she's flailing about in the inferno, as if the fire's really hurting her. So maybe Ash was telling the truth after all. Who can really say? I'd leave it up to individual games if they want fire to be effective.

But I think the whole "bulletproof Xenomorph" thing is just obviously, observably wrong. It doesn't track at all.
Good heads up from this thread as someone just starting to explore this game more in depth.

On the fire however, I don't know if the Queen is so much in pain so much as rage at the loss of her eggs. Remember Ripley enters the chamber and two Praetorian type xenomorphs begin to lurk. Ripley threatens the eggs with the incinerator and its pretty clear the Queen has the praetorian's stand down. It looks like a truce has been achieved ... but an egg is triggers open so Ripley torches the place. The scene, like the followup back on the Sullaco are about contest of what Cameron would probably call primal maternal instincts. I'm sure film students have done deep dives into anthropomorphizing xenomorphs, but the movie's very much a product of the 80s, an era steeped in male Hollywood types making monsters out of maternity etc, when they weren't putting that maternalism into straits of terror.

I want to say I remember in the Dark Horse comics fires being used by humans to contain or even herd xenomorphs, but I don't have access to those books at the moment and haven't looked at them for a couple of decades. So yes, Gamemother's call.
 
User avatar
Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 11:03

On the fire however, I don't know if the Queen is so much in pain so much as rage at the loss of her eggs. Remember Ripley enters the chamber and two Praetorian type xenomorphs begin to lurk. Ripley threatens the eggs with the incinerator and its pretty clear the Queen has the praetorian's stand down. It looks like a truce has been achieved ... but an egg is triggers open so Ripley torches the place. The scene, like the followup back on the Sullaco are about contest of what Cameron would probably call primal maternal instincts.

Agreed — that is exactly how I've read that scene, from 1986 on.

As for gender perspective analysis ... surely there are more appropriate fora?
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest