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decanox
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue 04 Jun 2019, 10:14

Re: Alien films

Mon 13 Jan 2020, 10:32

Prometheus was the state-of-the-art company flagship; Nostromo was a dilapidated tug.  (Not sure where you get that Covenant has the same structure as Alien; the setup is similar, but it also owes something of a debt to Aliens, as well as going off in its own gothic direction.)

As for the films - enjoyed Prometheus.  Enjoyed Covenant more.  As much as I love Alien 3 and Resurrection, both prequels were better.
Yes, it's clear that Prometheus ship was funded by Weyland himself so it could be a better ship than Nostromo but I can't believe that Prometheus, an older ship, uses digital and holographic technology while Nostromo uses analogic and 8-bit technology. Nowadays, for example, if I want to purchase a computer, the computer seller won't offer me a ZX Sinclair or an Amstrad if I want a cheap option. I think Scott and company should have been more careful with this (as Rogue One did)... I didn't say that Nostromo should be a better ship than Prometheus, I said that technology and atmosphere in general (costumes, scenery inside the ship, etc) should have been respectful with what we have seen in "Alien"; if not, it's not much credible.

About Covenant, if I remember well, at the beginning of the film, the crew of the Covenant receives a transmission from an unknown planet and of course some of them want to go there but Daniels (in the same way as Ripley in "Alien") complains about the dangers. Needless to say, they go there and all die. If this was the first movie in the franchise, it's ok but after "Alien" and "Aliens" we all knew in the cinema how these "fantastic" ideas were going to end.

And I would add about the two films that there were one of the first "fan service" effects (and I hate it). Prometheus ended with Shaw and David head going to the Engineers planet, so the second part would be set in that planet with Noomi Rapace and Michael Fassbender as main actors. After watching "Prometheus" many people (or fans) complaint that this was not an "Alien" movie. So, ok, producers asked themselves: <<Do you want an Alien movie? Forget the script of "Prometheus II". Here it's, "Covenant">>. And what happened with Shaw and David? "No problem, we solve all these questions in a 5 minute short movie".   
 
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Rymdhamster
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: Alien films

Mon 13 Jan 2020, 11:09

I'm interessted, what do you guys think of Prometheus and Alien Covenant?
Pretty good, I watch them from time to time. But I would probably even take Alien 4 over both of them any day in the week. Prometheus and Covenant contains much cooler ideas, but the stupid stuff in them disturbs my verisimilitude more than the stupid stuff in A:Res does.

And it feels like they can't quite decide weather or not they are indeed prequals, or something different. I've heard that Ridley wanted to something more standalone, but got pressured into making Prometheus into a "proper sequel", so we got some strange mix. Don't know if that is true or not, but it's kind of how I think they feel.

Though I think I might change my mind on Covenant. I might actually only have seen that once so far. I need to rewatch it again and maybe it will grow on me more.

For me, I think the big thing is that I don't want the company to know about the aliens prior Aliens. I like to think they heard Ripleys story and figured "what the heck, let's send someone out to investigate the site and see if there's any truth in this. Just tell them to be carefull and not touch anything under any circumstance!". But then that message got filtered through a couple of employees, and when those settlers wen't to investigate their curiousity got the best of them and all went to heck.

I guess it's because I prefer my coprorations to be "greedy and reckless" rather than "outright evil".  
 
S.M
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat 14 Dec 2019, 06:58

Re: Alien films

Mon 13 Jan 2020, 11:13

Forget the script of "Prometheus II". Here it's, "Covenant">>. And what happened with Shaw and David? "No problem, we solve all these questions in a 5 minute short movie".   

They didn't have a Prometheus 2 script - just ideas, which were adjusted based on the feedback to the first film.

Another key difference between Prometheus and Nostromo is that on Nostromo they spend nearly all their time asleep.  Prometheus they're supposed to live on for extended periods.  I just don't think they thought a modern audience would buy old CRT screens, so I don't have issues buying it.  The problems come in Aliens when they really could've done with 3D mapping.
About Covenant, if I remember well, at the beginning of the film, the crew of the Covenant receives a transmission from an unknown planet and of course some of them want to go there but Daniels (in the same way as Ripley in "Alien") complains about the dangers. Needless to say, they go there and all die. 
Correct.  The setup is similar to Alien.  The rest of he film not so much.  Getting stranded is more akin to Aliens and neither film have an evil robot with delusions of grandeur creating a new parasitic life form (ie. the second half of the film).
 
decanox
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue 04 Jun 2019, 10:14

Re: Alien films

Mon 13 Jan 2020, 12:12

Forget the script of "Prometheus II". Here it's, "Covenant">>. And what happened with Shaw and David? "No problem, we solve all these questions in a 5 minute short movie".  
They didn't have a Prometheus 2 script - just ideas, which were adjusted based on the feedback to the first film.
It's true, I was only joking. But I think it's obvious that seeing the end of "Prometheus", next film would be set with David and Shaw in the Engineer planet. But "Prometheus" was not too much "Alien" and people complaint through social network. Then "Covenant", a film with xenomorphs comes to please fans. I don't know what really happened, but I think, putting two and two, this is an admissible explanation.
About Covenant, if I remember well, at the beginning of the film, the crew of the Covenant receives a transmission from an unknown planet and of course some of them want to go there but Daniels (in the same way as Ripley in "Alien") complains about the dangers. Needless to say, they go there and all die.
Correct.  The setup is similar to Alien.  The rest of he film not so much.  Getting stranded is more akin to Aliens and neither film have an evil robot with delusions of grandeur creating a new parasitic life form (ie. the second half of the film).
Yes, maybe I had to specify: Covenant wasn't an original film or one that surprises you. When they went to the new planet, all the audience knew that anything would end wrong; when Walter killed David, all the audience knew that Walter was David instead (above all with 20 minutes or so left to end the film), etc. For me, it's too predictable. Maybe, it's impossible to make another original "Alien" and it's an exhausted franchise so that's the reason they have to make an effort to produce the best movie they can. Unfortunately, cinema is directed nowadays by the premise of fast benefits, it doesn't mind whether the same formulas are exhausted or not (the new Star Wars trilogy is the perfect example of this fact).

Anyway, in my opinion, the Alien RPG has taken the best of "Prometheus" and "Covenant": Neomorphs and Engineers.
 
S.M
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat 14 Dec 2019, 06:58

Re: Alien films

Mon 13 Jan 2020, 21:25

I think Ridley says on the commentary that as soon as David and Walter meet you know there's going to be a switcheroo at some point, the only question is what form it will take.  So yeah it's certainly predictable to a certain extent.
 
Riggswolfe
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 17:27

Re: Alien films

Tue 14 Jan 2020, 00:53

I'm interessted, what do you guys think of Prometheus and Alien Covenant?
I have a love/hate with them as I do most films post Aliens. Out of the two of them, Prometheus is a slightly better movie though as Deacanox alluded to the tech is so much better that it doesn't feel like its even in the same universe as Alien or Aliens. This could be explained by "rich guy made a fancy ship" but in Covenant, the tech is better again, and that's just a colony ship.

I really, really, really dislike the idea that David made the Xenomorphs. It takes something cool and mysterious and turns them into something made by a serial killer android. The xenomorphs go from something almost right out of Lovecraft to basically just an engineered weapon and they lose a lot I think.

Edit: I should say I dislike prequels in general. They always decide to over explain stuff and rob it of its mystery. My imagination has always been better than what I get in movies. I didn't even want an Alien prequel to be honest. I really liked the mystery of the derelict and what the aliens were and where they came from.
 
S.M
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat 14 Dec 2019, 06:58

Re: Alien films

Tue 14 Jan 2020, 02:27

I wasn't very keen on David being the creator of the Aliens initially, but the more I think about it, the more I don't mind it.
 
Riggswolfe
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 17:27

Re: Alien films

Tue 14 Jan 2020, 08:33

I wasn't very keen on David being the creator of the Aliens initially, but the more I think about it, the more I don't mind it.
I dig the sort of Doctor Frankenstein vibe probably because it's one of my favorite stories. But it robs the Xenomorphs of their, well, alieness in my opinion.

I'd actually have found it much more satisfying if David had started creating other synthetics. Let him play with his ideas of being a creator and making a rival race for humanity, just don't make it the xenomorphs. I much prefer them mysterious and very, very alien. 
 
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Rymdhamster
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: Alien films

Tue 14 Jan 2020, 10:50

I have a love/hate with them as I do most films post Aliens. Out of the two of them, Prometheus is a slightly better movie though as Deacanox alluded to the tech is so much better that it doesn't feel like its even in the same universe as Alien or Aliens. This could be explained by "rich guy made a fancy ship" but in Covenant, the tech is better again, and that's just a colony ship.
I'm not sure how correct the timeline I found on google is, but according to it the Prometheus launched in the year 2091, while the Nostroma began it's last journey in 2120, thirty years later.

Today (again according to google, so grains of salt please) a cargo ship (nautical) is expected to last for 30 years.

If we assume the life time might be extended even more for a future space ship, the Nostromo might well have been build many years before the Prometheus. It certainly doesn't _look_ new and shiny =) So the colonyship in Covenant might well have been built much later than nostromo,  maybe around the same time as the Prometheus but with lower budget.
 
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Fumarole
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun 12 Jan 2020, 18:59

Re: Alien films

Tue 14 Jan 2020, 17:35

I'm curious about what folks here think of William Gibson's Alien III script. I read it many years ago; it has Hicks and Bishop as the protagonists, not Ripley. I think this is the main reason Fox didn't go with it: they wanted to keep the focus on Ripley's character.

Just today I found out that Audible released an audio drama of it last year starring Michael Biehn and Lance Henrikson, which I am going to buy. Hopefully it is as good as it sounds like it will be.
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