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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 17:44

I'm also not fond of the idea that the Nostromo is essentially a hyperdrive module that gets attached to the refinery
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My problem here is that as the very first absolutely irrefutable, canonical fact we ever get to learn in the movie is the caption that states “commercial towing vehicle ‘the Nostromo’”.

Somehow, this needs to be rationalised.

And as the ship is about the size of a gnat next to the payload she tows, it's hardly plausible that she'd physically tow the refinery. Ergo, she must do something else, "towing vehicle"-wise.
And if we postulate that a hyperdrive, especially one able to haul such a great mass/volume into hyperspace, is a very, very expensive piece of kit, then it makes sense that not every container or autonomous refinery barge is equipped with one.
And so it makes sense to me that the drive -- along with the systems to navigate it -- should only be attached to the payload for the journey, exactly the same way a present-day IRL plug-in deep sea ATB tug attaches a, for the tug's own size ridiculously over-dimensioned, propulsion to its payload for transoceanic voyages.
But it would hardly be economical to build such a specialised vehicle like a Swiss Army knife -- with lots of superfluous capacity for other tasks; able to do many things, but not terribly good at any of them. Nor could such a vehicle easily be retrofitted from some other kind of vehicle (at least from looking at IRL terrestrial examples).
Hence I conclude she must be built from the keel up around her single function -- the hyperdrive, and the systems to power, support and direct it. These must reasonably fill the bulk of the ship's volume.
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But about it being too large. I believe this may be a screenshot of the Nostromo on LV426 or something close to it. Notice the little bit sticking out in front. That's the bridge.
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That nose section does, indeed, house the bridge. But have a look at this image from the soundstage:

Image

Note that the faceted viewport is the entire height of the deck, floor to ceiling - much higher than a man standing!
Using that as reference, you can see that the nose section alone could easily be three decks tall.

Then there is the shuttle. From the interior, you could surmise that the Narcissus must be at least ten meters wide (more like twelve from the scale of the studio models, actually).

But have a look at this image:


Image

As you can see, the Narcissus is about 1/4 of the width of the "trench" between the main hull and the nacelle.

Reference that with this promotional image of the Nostromo model (not quite in its final iteration yet), where the "trench" is seen very clearly:

Image

By that reference, the nose section could easily be 30 meters tall, if not more!

Further, there's the hyperdrive itself. If you look at this picture:

Image

Those two bright, narrow slits in the centre are the engineering control room windows. This is what they look like from the other side (sorry for the blurry image):

Image

Again, you can see that the space is at least an equivalent of a dozen decks high -- and this is in its entirety an interior space, somewhere inside the ship's hull!

The problem here is that the Nostromo doesn't actually add up. There is no single "master" model with all the detail in scale; there are numerous models and close-up models and close-close-up sets that depict various parts of the ship, and none of it will fit together. It's impossible to nail down an exact scale for the Nostromo. From different references, the end result can come out very, very differently.

Therefore, in doing what I have done with the deck plans and other work presented here, I've had to make compromises. It is obvious that Sir Ridley wanted to convey the size of ship that is truly vast, and I've gone with that.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 17:53

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I think the Nostromo suffers from the Millenium Falcon problem. The sets don't match up with the model. In this case, there's just not enough room if you go by the size of those windows on the sets vs the model.
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The Nostromo's problem is actually much worse than the Millennium Falcon's!

The Falcon only has to contend with an exterior geometry and an interior set that don't fit together. If you allow for making the "lounge" area of the Falcon more wedge-shaped instead of rectangular, it'll all actually fit together quite neatly.

But with the vastly different exterior representations of the Nostromo, you can't even get the exterior to fit together, let alone determine even an approximate scale for the ship!

And here's the thing: your version of how large the Nostromo must be, and my version ... they're both equally wrong, and both equally correct. There is evidence to support both, and a dozen others besides. In the end, we can only go with what each of us feels is right.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
Riggswolfe
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 18:14

The annoying thing to me, personally, is when I watch the movie the Nostromo feels both vast and cramped at the same time. You have that huge landing claw chamber where Brett died and you have the bridge where it looks like there is barely any headroom by the seats. You have the vents where Dallas meets his fate which seem both cramped but also quite large since they're big enough for him to crawl through with a weapon. I could go on.

As for the towing thing, well you see tiny little tug boats haul huge cargo ships into port in the real world. In space you have to deal with mass and inertia which to me means the Nostromo would have awful acceleration when hooked up to the refinery but should be able to haul it in real space. That said, it's been a decade since I was in calculus and physics classes so I am probably forgetting something.

Edit: This also means, to me, that the Nostromo has brakes worse than a real world big rig. She probably has to come out of FTL far away from her destination just to have time to slow down.
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 18:39

As for the towing thing, well you see tiny little tug boats haul huge cargo ships into port in the real world.
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You see tiny little tug boats by swarms nudge huge cargo ships in and out of dock, mainly. For the long haul ... it tends to look a bit different.

This is what to me would be the closest IRL equivalent to the Nostromo -- basically a huge, big engine with a bridge and some basic crew accommodations attached, that plugs into its payload:

Image
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 18:50

The annoying thing to me, personally, is when I watch the movie the Nostromo feels both vast and cramped at the same time.
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I'd say that's because that's precisely what she is. The hyperdrive -- as seen in the picture above -- is an incomprehensibly vast structure. The entire ship is literally built around it, and hence everything about the Nostromo, including her landing gear, is on a truly titanic scale.

But the crew is only there to service the hyperdrive. The Company does not see fit to waste money on pressurising a single cubic meter more of space for their comfort than absolutely necessary. Hence everything about the actual crew spaces follows a diametrically opposed logic to the scaling of the ship itself.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Rymdhamster
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 19:27

As for the towing thing, well you see tiny little tug boats haul huge cargo ships into port in the real world.
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You see tiny little tug boats by swarms nudge huge cargo ships in and out of dock, mainly. For the long haul ... it tends to look a bit different.
Yeah, but that's in water. In space, it tends to look a bit different ;) 

All you need is the nudge to get going, and another nudge to stop.
 
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Rymdhamster
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 19:43

This picture actually raises more concerns with me Re: external ship size versus set size. I think at most the Nostromo could hold 3 decks. That front landing gear is huge compared to the bridge and we know Brett died in the landing gear room. (I thought it was a cargo bay until very recently honestly.) 
I just messuared a bit on the side veiw picture I posted. Even if we assume one level is twice the height of the cockpit window (what with crawlspaces and stuff) you can fit 10 levels in. lets assume it's got a pretty thick hull, but hardly more than 1 lvl thick. That still leaves 8 actual levels. 

Depending on what you count as "1 level", of course. You bring up the gear compartement. But one room being that big doesn't mean each level is that big. Instead, that specific compartment could instead spann several  levels. 
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 19:57

As for the towing thing, well you see tiny little tug boats haul huge cargo ships into port in the real world.
.
You see tiny little tug boats by swarms nudge huge cargo ships in and out of dock, mainly. For the long haul ... it tends to look a bit different.
Yeah, but that's in water. In space, it tends to look a bit different ;) 

All you need is the nudge to get going, and another nudge to stop.
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Yes, but not quite. The "nudge" (impulse) must be great enough to overcome the inertia of whatever is being nudged.
The specific impulse then needs to be great enough to impart a change in momentum substantial enough to be useful.

Just looking at the size ratios of Nostromo and the refinery, my gut feeling is that it's probably ... not.
Add to that the fact that the Nostromo's thrusters point straight into the bulk of the refinery and ... really not.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 19:59


Depending on what you count as "1 level", of course. You bring up the gear compartement. But one room being that big doesn't mean each level is that big. Instead, that specific compartment could instead spann several  levels. 
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Did you check the deck plans on the first page of this thread, especially the section view?
The gear well and the gear mechanism needs to go pretty much through the entire hull.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
Riggswolfe
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 17:27

Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 20:11

This picture actually raises more concerns with me Re: external ship size versus set size. I think at most the Nostromo could hold 3 decks. That front landing gear is huge compared to the bridge and we know Brett died in the landing gear room. (I thought it was a cargo bay until very recently honestly.) 
I just messuared a bit on the side veiw picture I posted. Even if we assume one level is twice the height of the cockpit window (what with crawlspaces and stuff) you can fit 10 levels in. lets assume it's got a pretty thick hull, but hardly more than 1 lvl thick. That still leaves 8 actual levels. 

Depending on what you count as "1 level", of course. You bring up the gear compartement. But one room being that big doesn't mean each level is that big. Instead, that specific compartment could instead spann several  levels. 
It's for sure taking up multiple levels. Two maybe, perhaps even three. I did manage to find a screenshot of Brett in the claw room. 

Image

Because of the angle it's hard to get a sense of scale but that's the bottom of the claw because it is hanging clear of the deck. I believe we're looking at the four "feet" folded down. In Vader's earlier post you can see an image of the Nostromo with its landing claws extended. Judging by this, I still stand by my 3-4 decks feeling. This actually seems to be the common consensus so I feel pretty safe in my assumptions. I looked at the blueprint book again and he has it at 3 decks which my "eyeballing" came up with as well.
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