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Rymdhamster
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 20:21


Depending on what you count as "1 level", of course. You bring up the gear compartement. But one room being that big doesn't mean each level is that big. Instead, that specific compartment could instead spann several  levels. 
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Did you check the deck plans on the first page of this thread, especially the section view?
The gear well and the gear mechanism needs to go pretty much through the entire hull.
Me? I'm on your side in this ;)

Appart from maybe the intended function of the ship =P
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 20:57

Me? I'm on your side in this ;)

Appart from maybe the intended function of the ship =P
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:thumbup:
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Rymdhamster
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 22:09

Having read through the Alien script, it mentions A, B, C, and E levels (though it sometimes refer to them as "decks". unsure if this is just an inconsistency in writing, or if there is a difference).

Presumable there is a D level squeezed in there somewhere. Maybe I just missed it. 

In addition it mentions several specific areas without indicating a level for them.

So at least 5 levels, it looks like. Might be something below E to. 
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Thu 12 Dec 2019, 22:17

This picture actually raises more concerns with me Re: external ship size versus set size. I think at most the Nostromo could hold 3 decks. That front landing gear is huge compared to the bridge and we know Brett died in the landing gear room. (I thought it was a cargo bay until very recently honestly.) 
I just messuared a bit on the side veiw picture I posted. Even if we assume one level is twice the height of the cockpit window (what with crawlspaces and stuff) you can fit 10 levels in. lets assume it's got a pretty thick hull, but hardly more than 1 lvl thick. That still leaves 8 actual levels. 

Depending on what you count as "1 level", of course. You bring up the gear compartement. But one room being that big doesn't mean each level is that big. Instead, that specific compartment could instead spann several  levels. 
It's for sure taking up multiple levels. Two maybe, perhaps even three. I did manage to find a screenshot of Brett in the claw room. 

Image

Because of the angle it's hard to get a sense of scale but that's the bottom of the claw because it is hanging clear of the deck. I believe we're looking at the four "feet" folded down. In Vader's earlier post you can see an image of the Nostromo with its landing claws extended. Judging by this, I still stand by my 3-4 decks feeling. This actually seems to be the common consensus so I feel pretty safe in my assumptions. I looked at the blueprint book again and he has it at 3 decks which my "eyeballing" came up with as well.
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I'm afraid that image of Brett by the retracted landing claw doesn't really signify ... there is a difference between what the Sir Ridley tried to portray, and what was practically possible to build at the time (CGI not being available).

If you look at this picture of the landing set, you'll see an adult man standing right next to the extended claw. You'll see the man is about as tall as the claw is thick at the base:

Image

During filming however, Sir Ridley used children in spacesuits (just like he did at the Space Jockey set) to emphasize the massive scale of the ship:

Image

At this implied scale, the landing gear absolutely dwarfs the "crewmen".

And that brings us right back to this picture:

Image

If a man standing is smaller than the thickness of the claw -- indeed, considerably shorter than the bridge viewport is high, as I showed in an earlier image -- then all of a sudden, nine decks should seem quite plausible...

As a side note -- in his "ALIEN: The Blueprints", Graham Langridge (with whom I used to discuss these things endlessly a couple of years ago, when he had started work on the book) draws five decks for the Nostromo. I feel however that he is underestimating the size of the ship ever so slightly, but unfortunately, he doesn't provide a section view ... I'd have liked to see how he stacks the decks. I have a hunch they're quite widely spaced.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
Riggswolfe
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Fri 13 Dec 2019, 04:44

I'll look at the book again but I think it's 3 decks with 2 zoomed in drawings of sections of the deck to show more detail.

This is again the problem with trying to base size off of the film, the script, sets, photos, etc. We see lots of differences all over the place. To me, with those windows, I still don't see how you could squeeze more than 4 floors in and that is only if they're stacked with nothing in between like vents and conduits for wires and such which I don't think is the case. 

Sir Ridley himself is far from consistent. The Space Jockey in Alien looks huge because he used kids in the shots with it but in Prometheus the Space Jockey is...just a tall bald dude. I mean, a basketball player could probably look him in the eyes. 
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Fri 13 Dec 2019, 17:39

I'll look at the book again but I think it's 3 decks with 2 zoomed in drawings of sections of the deck to show more detail.
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Quite right -- I stand corrected!
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This is again the problem with trying to base size off of the film, the script, sets, photos, etc. We see lots of differences all over the place. To me, with those windows, I still don't see how you could squeeze more than 4 floors in and that is only if they're stacked with nothing in between like vents and conduits for wires and such which I don't think is the case.
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That's just the thing ... as we established from this picture, the viewport is the full deck high, from floor to ceiling (or deck sole to deck head, if you like). Looking at the various people inside, it even seems the ceiling height at the view ports is a bit over standard (makes sense, as the Bridge has a bit of a theatre structure, with tiered seating):

Image

If I go from this picture posted earlier and draw lines from the viewport to the vanishing point, I can see that I can easily fit 17 full iterations of the viewport over the total height of the main hull, meaning that I can fit my nine decks, with at least one full deck's worth of space between each:

Image

Just to ensure a second opinion -- if we use this side elevation from one of Graham's blueprints (n.b. that it in itself is a compromise, as each of the three different models depicting the bow section yield somewhat different proportions), then I get 16 full iterations of the viewport height over the main hull:

Image

So, on the whole ... nine decks work for me, I'd have to say.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Fri 13 Dec 2019, 18:55

[ot]
The Space Jockey in Alien looks huge because he used kids in the shots with it but in Prometheus the Space Jockey is...just a tall bald dude. I mean, a basketball player could probably look him in the eyes.
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Not to mention, Giger's "Space Jockey" is hardly even humanoid in its proportions, or even basic layout ... and seems to at least partly partly have grown out of (or into?) its console ... thing.
Sir Ridley's big dude-type could never be bent into a shape able to fit into the original's carapace.

Just one more reason -- among a legion -- to just ignore those "prequel" ... abominations, in my book.
[/ot]
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
Riggswolfe
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Fri 13 Dec 2019, 23:56

At the end of the day it comes down to I don't think that windows is as large as you believe it is. I'll repost my picture from earlier:

Image

Perspective makes it hard to judge but I think those windows are maybe 4-5 feet tall and not floor to ceiling as you believe. In your diagram, I'd include that entire front triangular area as the part of the bridge where they sit. It fits the cramped feel of it and where it widens out is the back, which I take to be the height of a standard deck, perhaps a bit higher as that part of the bridge seems to have a lot of headroom oddly enough.

The biggest issue with my thoughts on size isn't actually those windows at all. It's Ash's observation blister which I think he marks as the C-deck observation blister. 

Image

If that is what it is I may indeed have to revise my thoughts on the size of the Nostromo. But as I've said repeatedly, the ship just doesn't "fit" logically together. Some sets seem bigger than others when "fit" to the ship. It's a bit maddening. Then again, it occurs to me, his observation blister may be in that center "trench" which means from a side view you only see a portion of it, so it may fit again.

My other chief issue with 9 or 10 decks is it begs the question "Why?" What purpose does it serve to have so much space for a ship with only 7 crew who spend most of their time in hypersleep? You have to keep all that space pressurized and lit and heated and that means money spent. I just don't see how it fits corporate ideology to give them all that extra room which would rarely be used. 
 
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sat 14 Dec 2019, 05:43


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You see tiny little tug boats by swarms nudge huge cargo ships in and out of dock, mainly. For the long haul ... it tends to look a bit different.
Yeah, but that's in water. In space, it tends to look a bit different ;) 

All you need is the nudge to get going, and another nudge to stop.
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Yes, but not quite. The "nudge" (impulse) must be great enough to overcome the inertia of whatever is being nudged.
The specific impulse then needs to be great enough to impart a change in momentum substantial enough to be useful.

Just looking at the size ratios of Nostromo and the refinery, my gut feeling is that it's probably ... not.
Add to that the fact that the Nostromo's thrusters point straight into the bulk of the refinery and ... really not.
There's no inertia of rest in space; that is to say, in more grounded terms, no rolling resistance to overcome before acceleration. Any thrust at all is effective. The interstellar medium and solar winds are measured in nanograms per cubic kilometer, usually fractional even then. (1 atom per CC for the ISM is average, 90% hydrogen; 1g is 6.02*10^23 atoms. Moving to cubic meters makes it 1e6 atoms. Moving to cubic km is 1e12 atoms per km³. 6e11 km³ per gram. 1.6e-12 g/km³, or 0.0016 nanograms per km³...  while the interplanetary is about 0.008 ng per km³

12 millinewtons can accelerate a 6 ton spacecraft... slowly. Or a 60 ton, very slowly.  

Now, orbit's a little different - the earth's atmosphere is still denser than interplanetary medium even at a few good heights. Let's use 500 km. 6.03E-14 kg/m³ or or 6.03e-11 g/m³,  or 6.03e-2 g/km³, 6 milligrams per cubic kilometer. In the upper levels of LEO. So, even assuming  12 millinewtons, and a 100x100m front... (0.01km²), you don't speed cap until 200km/s...  that's when the mass of the atmosphere accelerated is using all the force to push them in front; no more acceleration.... and orbital speed at 500m is around 7.6 km/s, so said speed cap isn't going to apply.

So, once they get that badboy to orbit... towing it is no problem. It's the "getting it to orbit" that's the hard part. 

Srcs 
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
S.M
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sat 14 Dec 2019, 07:47

I think these are great deck plans for something other than the Nostromo.

The Nostromo has three decks - A, B and C.  Plus Graham is a friend of mine, who has spent years researching this kind of thing.  Ditto Darrell Curtis.  As have I.  

While the Nostromo set and Nostromo model has all the issues of any sci-fi spaceship, I'm not seeing anything here to convince me that these plans are more accurate than the ones Graham published.

Also a lot of stuff claimed to made up by fans is taken from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.

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