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Riggswolfe
Posts: 149
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sat 14 Dec 2019, 09:35

I think these are great deck plans for something other than the Nostromo.

The Nostromo has three decks - A, B and C.  Plus Graham is a friend of mine, who has spent years researching this kind of thing.  Ditto Darrell Curtis.  As have I.  

While the Nostromo set and Nostromo model has all the issues of any sci-fi spaceship, I'm not seeing anything here to convince me that these plans are more accurate than the ones Graham published.

Also a lot of stuff claimed to made up by fans is taken from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.
Just out of curiosity, do you know what kind of research he had to arrive at his number of decks? I actually agree with him from what I've looked at but am curious what he used to come to his conclusions.
 
S.M
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sat 14 Dec 2019, 10:27

The script, film, Ron Cobb concept art all reference and depict three decks.  Someone above mentioned an 'E' deck in the script but I've never come across it.  'A' deck is the bridge, galley, infirmary, Mother, hypersleep vault.  'B' deck is barely seen.  'C' deck was scripted for Engineering, but Graham moved it to 'B' deck.
 
DeanP
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 04:05

And here I thought; "I am such an Alien fanboy and geek", then I read this thread. I am unworthy and humbled. 
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 22:21

Aramis:

12 millinewtons can accelerate a 6 ton spacecraft... slowly. Or a 60 ton, very slowly. 
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That's precisely the point I try to illustrate. In space, you still need to overcome inertia, if you want to change the direction of something -- to get it to move in a direction other than it already is. If it's at a standstill, fine ... but few things are, out there. If it's already moving more or less in the right direction, also fine. But otherwise...

Then you need to build momentum to get the thing you're moving somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. And that's where I can't see how the Nostromo -- especially with thrusters pointing straight into the refinery! -- can ever make anything sensible happen ... unless it's supposed to do it in hyperspace, where other rules can be assumed to apply.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 22:22

Riggswolfe:

At the end of the day it comes down to I don't think that windows is as large as you believe it is.
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I'm afraid that's quite irrefutable. You can clearly see how the window extends from the level of the deck plates all the way up to where the set's roof is -- i.e. all the way up to the ceiling inside. Further, the people crouching right inside of the view port, and the one sitting in one of the couches, should provide a sense of scale to reinforce what I've been saying.

Moreover, the picture you posted shows the same view port, just from the other side. Note that the lower pane extends far beyond the line of sight in your image.

Image
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The biggest issue with my thoughts on size isn't actually those windows at all. It's Ash's observation blister which I think he marks as the C-deck observation blister.
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The "C-Deck Observation Blister" is, indeed, what is colloquially known as "Ash's Blister". There are no other observation blisters.
This little unit hanging from the Nostromo just fore of the forward landing gear, that contains both Ash's blister and the exit from the L-1 airlock was actually Graham's invention. It actually contradicts the set -- in the landing set, the blister and the air lock elevator are on different sides of the landing gear. But using Graham's idea, crucially, does not contradict what we actually get to see in the movie, and so I have no compunctions about using it.
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But as I've said repeatedly, the ship just doesn't "fit" logically together
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Precisely so!
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My other chief issue with 9 or 10 decks is it begs the question "Why?" What purpose does it serve to have so much space for a ship with only 7 crew who spend most of their time in hypersleep? You have to keep all that space pressurized and lit and heated and that means money spent. I just don't see how it fits corporate ideology to give them all that extra room which would rarely be used.
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Fair question. Obviously, it's not lit or pressurised during most of the trip -- we see lights turned on and air flowing in when Mother wakes the crew up. And even then, it's only the areas represented by the A-Deck sets that actually are at least semi-brightly lit. Other than that ... I'd postulate you need to be able to move around the vast bulk of the ship, in order to perform necessary repairs. Ground crew certainly needs to; perhaps even the crew is called upon to do so once in a while (certainly are during this trip, with the damage sustained during landing). But with the vast size of the ship -- nine decks is, if not next to nothing, at least nothing remarkable. A terrestrial ocean-going vessel of the same size would have at least twenty different levels on decks and platforms.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 22:22

S.M.:
The Nostromo has three decks - A, B and C.  Plus Graham is a friend of mine, who has spent years researching this kind of thing.  Ditto Darrell Curtis.  As have I. 
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And I. (Say Hi to Darrell for me next time you see him). And several others I am sure both you and I could name.

I do depart from the "established fandom" view on many points, mainly because I insist on sticking with the movies. That the sets were built on three distinct "levels" to depict various levels of "posh-ness" for want of a better word, is a well-known fact. But this does not necessarily extend to that the ship has three deck levels.
Why?
Because it is never said in the movie that she does!

Instead, there is evidence to the contrary: when Ripley on her way from the Bridge to the Infirmary descends a ladder. There the film gives her no reason for her to have made a detour on the way, so the only reasonable explanation is that the "A-Deck" set actually depicts multiple decks on the ship.

As we all know -- a set is just a convenient assembly of locations to shoot a movie, not a full-scale model. "Reality" may well differ from the sets.

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While the Nostromo set and Nostromo model has all the issues of any sci-fi spaceship, I'm not seeing anything here to convince me that these plans are more accurate than the ones Graham published.
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Apart from the above ... if we follow Ripley running from Engineering towards the shuttle after failing to abort the self-destruct, she turns left upon exiting the control room. In the movie, upon approaching the shuttle access, she follows a corridor that curves left, and the final junction to the shuttle access is also a left turn.
However, in Grahams version, she'd end up going right at the shuttle access.

Just as an example.

All I claim is my deck plans are at least more screen accurate -- because to me, screen accurate matters. To Graham, it does not, at least to the same degree.

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Also a lot of stuff claimed to made up by fans is taken from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.
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You do know where the CMTM came from, don't you? One of the biggest fan endeavours in the history of the whole ALIEN property! Great job, doubtless, but it was still all a fan effort.

But they, too, did get some things irrefutably wrong -- for instance the Vasquez pistol issue I highlight in this thread.

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The script, film, Ron Cobb concept art all reference and depict three decks. 
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Image
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This is as far as I am aware the only concept by Cobb that goes into that kind of detail -- the Leviathan.

And as far as I am concerned -- just looking at those pictures -- the Leviathan is not the Nostromo.

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I think these are great deck plans for something other than the Nostromo.
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That, in the end, must then come down to opinion ... of which each of is entitled to our own, of course.

These ARE the Nostromo, unquestionably ... for me.

I offer them to the community, in case they can be for anybody else, as well.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
S.M
Posts: 133
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 23:07

There's more internal artwork by Cobb depicting only three decks. O'Bannon wrote 3 decks and Giler and Hill didn't deviate from that.  Because the ship name and look changed didn't mean it went from 3 decks to 9.  Personally I would stay as true as possible to the source material, and try and work around the obvious issues that come with making a movie, rather starting from scratch as seems to be the case here.

Also there's a bit of a difference between fans adopting terms and officially licensed material.  Most authors in the license are fans to varying degrees.
 
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Vader
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Sun 15 Dec 2019, 23:12

 rather starting from scratch as seems to be the case here.
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Not scratch, my friend -- the movie.
The movie we're all fans of.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Rymdhamster
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Mon 16 Dec 2019, 01:19

Someone above mentioned an 'E' deck in the script but I've never come across it.  
It's mentioned twice in the set/location directions. 

But then there was also a "fade to black" style sex scene between Ripley and Dallas in there somewhere as well as a hull puncture. So you know... a grain of salt would not go amiss =) 
 
S.M
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Re: NOSTROMO – the Accurate Deck Plans (IMO, anyway...)

Mon 16 Dec 2019, 01:38

 rather starting from scratch as seems to be the case here.
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Not scratch, my friend -- the movie.
The movie we're all fans of.
That's what I meant.  From scratch as in ignoring everything other than what ended up in the film.  It wasn't intended as a criticism.
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