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aramis
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Re: Love the work put into this

Fri 15 Nov 2019, 03:09

Nah, he isn't. And what he says is canon, whether we like it or not. And it's no more immersion breaking than it's growth speed in my opinion, it was always part of the original 1979 film so it's certainly not something that breaks my immersion.
That the character said it is canon. That he is right isn't; that he can lie is canon, too.
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Diego
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Re: Love the work put into this

Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:13

That the character said it is canon. That he is right isn't; that he can lie is canon, too.
Couldn't agree with you more. I'll even add him saying it and believing it because of how deluded he is.
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FiendishlyInventive
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Re: Love the work put into this

Fri 15 Nov 2019, 13:00

All we get from David in terms of being incorrect about something- is authorship, not details- otherwise he couldn't (re)create the Alien in the first place. The Pathogen, and therefore the Alien created from it- is a E.T, A.I- the RPG itself reiterates this.

And Covenant IMO falls apart the second the adult Alien appears, everything before it is a delight.

David included, as I've said before not a great Alien film, in terms of adherence to the thematic resonance of the first three Alien films- but it is a great Gothic Romantic Horror picture, adaptation of Frankenstein. And far superior to Prometheus.
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Diego
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Re: Love the work put into this

Fri 15 Nov 2019, 13:28

One can follow a set of instructions to create something and not understand it or even more, misunderstand it. Further someone can want something badly enough that they end up seeing what they want t to see or interpret it such. He was after all a broken toy.
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aramis
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Re: Love the work put into this

Fri 15 Nov 2019, 23:50

All we get from David in terms of being incorrect about something- is authorship, not details- otherwise he couldn't (re)create the Alien in the first place. The Pathogen, and therefore the Alien created from it- is a E.T, A.I- the RPG itself reiterates this. 
You seem to fail to grasp that David is a liar. He's actively deceiving the humans, and to an extent, also deceiving Walter. The reveal that he killed and replaced Walter puts everything he said, including his role as creator of the XX121, into doubt. He might think he is, and not be (a delusion). It might even have all been a deception.
The only thing he says in prometheus we can trust as a certainty is that he thinks he perfected the alien agent into xx121. And maybe his rationale for why he's doing it. He's dangerously unreliable. We see him arrange to disburse the XX121 aliens
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Diego
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Re: Love the work put into this

Sat 16 Nov 2019, 00:06

All we get from David in terms of being incorrect about something- is authorship, not details- otherwise he couldn't (re)create the Alien in the first place. The Pathogen, and therefore the Alien created from it- is a E.T, A.I- the RPG itself reiterates this. 
You seem to fail to grasp that David is a liar. He's actively deceiving the humans, and to an extent, also deceiving Walter. The reveal that he killed and replaced Walter puts everything he said, including his role as creator of the XX121, into doubt. He might think he is, and not be (a delusion). It might even have all been a deception.
The only thing he says in prometheus we can trust as a certainty is that he thinks he perfected the alien agent into xx121. And maybe his rationale for why he's doing it. He's dangerously unreliable. We see him arrange to disburse the XX121 aliens
You nailed my thoughts exactly.
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FiendishlyInventive
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Re: Love the work put into this

Sat 16 Nov 2019, 12:38

But what he says about the nature of the Pathogen- doesn't come into question, he reiterates it in the book David's Drawings and the Advent Special Feature, where you see a recording of him talking to himself.

No- being a liar and being mistaken about something isn't necessarily related. I get you don't care for the character, but seriously- everytime he decieves someone he does it with a purpose, just as in Prometheus- poisoning Charlie Holloway to see if the Pathogen indeed is a solution to Peter Weyland's imminent death. He decieves the crew of the Covenant, now that he's free- for experimentation.

He wouldn't lie about the Alien itself, or his experiments- at least, not knowingly- but we're given no reason to doubt he's right from a scientific standpoint, he's completely correct about The Pathogen, and Advent, the RPG, David's Drawings, The Cold Forge and other material backs him up- what he is incorrect about- is very specifically authorship.
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