User avatar
aramis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:34
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Tue 27 Aug 2019, 08:06

The blu-ray has a bunch of deleted scenes. Only a few of them really felt needed to me. 

Then again, I go into a prequel assuming it's a retcon.

I've only been occasionally surprised by a prequel not being a major retcon.

Prometheus made perfect sense to me first view... but with one big caveat... they hired low-budget characters (not actors - WY hired idiots willing to take bottom dollar)...
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
Jhea
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri 02 Aug 2019, 12:35

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Tue 27 Aug 2019, 14:40

Funny, i haven't been given a script when i entered the cinema ;)
Who, exactly, are you so mad at here?
:D
Not mad with anyone.
Just pointing out obvious things.
thus making poster 2 even more defensive of shitshow :)
I don't need a fancy signature quote from some dude, everything i say is pure gold! ~ myself
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 1413
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: The Pearl of Lake Vänern.

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Tue 27 Aug 2019, 15:13

Moderator message:

This might be a little bit of a 'joke' thread and that might be fine but please everyone, refrain yourselves from personal attacks.

I say this preemptively, before someone steps over the line and I have to do something.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
Yuber Okami
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 01 Jun 2019, 17:44

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Tue 27 Aug 2019, 18:16

It's still a better movie than Alien 3 (no character murder in the credits to give a middle finger to the audience) but it commits what, to me, is a cardinal sin.
Image
 
User avatar
Johnny
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:46

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Wed 28 Aug 2019, 09:28

It tries to explain stuff that didn't need to be explained. I actually liked the mystery of the space jockey. I liked not knowing where the Xenomorphs came from. I liked just trying to imagine it. I also liked the space jockey not being some bald albino dude but instead looking totally, well, alien. I know they've retconned that to simply being a suit, but that's not how it looks in the original movie at all. Also, he's like 15 feet tall in the movie.They famously used child actors in long shots to emphasize how big he is.
Exactly. By trying to explain things that don't need explanation at all the only thing they managed is to cheapen everything and rob the mistery (the jockey, the aliens origin) of the gravitas it had in the original movies. On top of that the version they went with is totally ridiculous: in the first film is extremely clear that the jockey it's not a suit and the design of the engineers is just not that good.

I dislike Alien 3 for killing loved characters in the way they did, I still like the setting and the general idea, but starting like that...
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?"
 
User avatar
AndersP
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue 03 Oct 2017, 14:12

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Wed 28 Aug 2019, 11:05

I for one had no problem with the death of the certain character in Alien 3, the problem was the revival in Alien 4 for me.

I have rewatched Prometheus 2 times, and feel really sad since there is potential for a good movie there if they had worked more (or less) on the scripted and for example made the characters of the movie where better and that they skipped that engineer = Space Jockey. Now it feels like a fan service gone really bad.
 
Riggswolfe
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 17:27

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Wed 28 Aug 2019, 14:35

I for one had no problem with the death of the certain character in Alien 3, the problem was the revival in Alien 4 for me.

I have rewatched Prometheus 2 times, and feel really sad since there is potential for a good movie there if they had worked more (or less) on the scripted and for example made the characters of the movie where better and that they skipped that engineer = Space Jockey. Now it feels like a fan service gone really bad.
I didn't mind Ripley's death in Alien 3. It made sense for the story they had. I just despised Newt and Hicks getting killed off in the opening credits. It made everything she fought for so hard in Aliens mean nothing. 

A simple rewrite would make that movie 100X better for me. In the beginning, the Facehugger enters Ripley's pod and infects her. The Sulaco detects it and ejects her pod and hers alone. She crashes on the planet. Hicks, Newt and Bishop continue on their way and wake up back at Earth having no idea where Ripley is or what happened to her. The rest of the movie plays out the same but it no longer gives a huge middle finger in the opening credits.

Also, in light of the moderator's warning earlier, I want to make clear. I dislike Alien 3 and have extremely mixed feelings on the prequels but I know other people feel differently and that's fine. I'm not that intense in my feelings about the movies.
 
User avatar
aramis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:34
Location: Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Wed 28 Aug 2019, 22:36

A simple rewrite would make that movie 100X better for me. In the beginning, the Facehugger enters Ripley's pod and infects her. The Sulaco detects it and ejects her pod and hers alone. She crashes on the planet. Hicks, Newt and Bishop continue on their way and wake up back at Earth having no idea where Ripley is or what happened to her. The rest of the movie plays out the same but it no longer gives a huge middle finger in the opening credits.
That makes for a problem, tho'... we need an alien down on the planet, too. Which requires at least one more casualty... or the queen to have survived on the Sulacco. 
But there's no one else. So queenie needs to have left some eggs where they;'d be crashed, too...
Also, Newt's going to be messed up by things even if all three had made it to earth. If she wakes up sans Ripley, she's going to be even more troubled. And, if the other one was incubated in Hicks... waking up on earth, with all the people she's trusted suddenly missing, she's going to be hellaciously troubled.
The reason for killing her off was simple: The actress was too old to play her. That would still be true. So, Newt is the most suitable host for Ripley's nemesis... which also makes the Ripley vs Alien even more poigniant.
So, hicks dying left things tidily tied off... 
 
—————————————————————————
Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
Riggswolfe
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 17:27

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Thu 29 Aug 2019, 01:58

A simple rewrite would make that movie 100X better for me. In the beginning, the Facehugger enters Ripley's pod and infects her. The Sulaco detects it and ejects her pod and hers alone. She crashes on the planet. Hicks, Newt and Bishop continue on their way and wake up back at Earth having no idea where Ripley is or what happened to her. The rest of the movie plays out the same but it no longer gives a huge middle finger in the opening credits.
That makes for a problem, tho'... we need an alien down on the planet, too. Which requires at least one more casualty... or the queen to have survived on the Sulacco. 
But there's no one else. So queenie needs to have left some eggs where they;'d be crashed, too...
Also, Newt's going to be messed up by things even if all three had made it to earth. If she wakes up sans Ripley, she's going to be even more troubled. And, if the other one was incubated in Hicks... waking up on earth, with all the people she's trusted suddenly missing, she's going to be hellaciously troubled.
The reason for killing her off was simple: The actress was too old to play her. That would still be true. So, Newt is the most suitable host for Ripley's nemesis... which also makes the Ripley vs Alien even more poigniant.
So, hicks dying left things tidily tied off... 
 
Newt wasn't the host for the other alien. It was a dog or an ox depending on which version of Alien 3 you watched. I don't think the movie explains where the second egg/facehugger came from (to my memory at least) but it'd be simple to have it in Ripley's pod or have the one that put a queen in her be a special one that has a second embryo to make a drone to protect the queen. I think that was actually one of the early ideas, that it was a "royal facehugger." I'd need to go look again.

Dark Horse handled this fairly well in the comics they put out before Alien 3. It had Ripley disappearing (for a totally different reason.) Newt was in a mental hospital because the company convinced everyone what she had experienced wasn't real and she had nightly nightmares about LV426. Hicks was a drunk who was almost dishonorably discharged. They team back up because Hicks gets a mission to go to another world infested by Aliens and he breaks Newt out of the mental hospital when he finds out she is going to be lobotomized. He sneaks her onto the ship and when they wake up at their destination he basically blackmails the commanding officer to say it was his idea because she was a civilian expert on the Xenomorphs. Honestly, this would have been a great Alien 4 if they'd done something like what I mentioned for Alien 3.
 
Yuber Okami
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 01 Jun 2019, 17:44

Re: Prometheus - the Franchise killer

Thu 29 Aug 2019, 09:56

I think we are getting off-topic here, but...

The real reason behind Hick's killing was budget constraints. Originally Sigourney Weaver couldn't make another Alien film because she had already sign to make another film, so the producers decided she will appear only briefly and the main characters would be Hicks and Bishop (as seen in Gibson's Aliens 3 script, now also a comic book). When Weaber told them she was again available (I don't know the reason), the producers said they couldn't bring all three characters back together.

According to a friend of mine, Hicks' actor got more money from his picture appearing for one second in Aliens 3 than for making the entire Aliens 2 film.

And yes, the Dark Horse comics tended to be better than the movies, be it Aliens, Predators, AvP or even the apparently ridiculous Aliens vs Predator vs The Terminator (which gave Ripley a real heroes' ending after Alien 4). Heck, even the AvP videogame had a better script than the film!
GZIP: Off