AlexanderMars
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Re: Space Combat?

Wed 05 Jun 2019, 00:45

Personally I hope space combat in the game goes something like.

There’s red flashing lights and sirens because the ship is under attack. You run from the cargo bay to bridge as fast as you can. By the time you get there the ships automatics have already deployed countermeasures and all you can do is pray.

Because as we know Alien isn’t Star Wars, it’s more like OMG everyone is dead wars. Even Drop-ship combat should be brutal and get deadly very fast. You’re not gonna be dog fighting at Mach 5 in the upper atmosphere, but you might glass an LZ before putting down an APC full of grunts.
 
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Artcircus
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Re: Space Combat?

Thu 06 Jun 2019, 16:25

There's mention in the CM Technical Manual of damage that the Sulaco took from an anti satellite missile spread years prior to the LV426 mission. Essentially Mother handles all the course corrections, decoy depoyments and counter fire with minimal human interaction. Six missiles were launched and Sulaco dropped decoy blimps or something similar to mimic the Sulaco's signal. The Sulaco then spoofed her own signal and pretended to be a decoy.  Four missiles took the bait and went for the actual decoys and two decided to go for the Sulaco pretending, very obviously to be a decoy, because they thought it was the actual ship, which it was. In this instance Mother had been too clever for her own good as her double bluff didn't work and two missiles ploughed into her dropship bays and gutted them.
I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies.
 
Birdie_Sparrow
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Re: Space Combat?

Sun 09 Jun 2019, 17:24

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate..."
 
AlexanderMars
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Re: Space Combat?

Sun 09 Jun 2019, 20:14

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate..."
https://alienanthology.fandom.com/wiki/ ... e_Timeline

I’m not sure how I feel about tying two of my favourite properties together so tightly, however it does make sense. It actually backs up the argument that space combat would be mostly automated because the response times would require either a synthetic or just kissing your ass goodbye.

Also, if blade runner and alien are on the same timeline then you should just throw Elysium and Chappie in there as well. Those movies make more sense to than Prometheus, but I digress.
 
Konungr
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Re: Space Combat?

Wed 12 Jun 2019, 08:04

Blade Runner is canon if Alien Isolation is. Alien Isolation has logs that talk about Tyrell and his "puppets" project and how the synthetics were more reliable and had more of a future.

BR also has the Weyland Yutani logo somewhere.
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Also the gun emplacements used in Firefly are produced by Weyland Yutani. Take that however you want.
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Birdie_Sparrow
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Re: Space Combat?

Wed 12 Jun 2019, 22:42

BR and Aliens are supposed to be on the same timeline as I recall.
 
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aramis
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Re: Space Combat?

Tue 18 Jun 2019, 02:57

I found some information in the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.

Yes, they mention "rail guns, mines, several missile types, particle beam weapons and defensive lasers", but also that space combat is rare due to spaces size, ships speeds and detection possibilities.

Most important: In space there is nothing worth fighting for. The weaponary seems in the best case to suppress further support for the ground forces.
No, there's plenty worth fighting for... and most of it is commodities carried aboard. And those vary. 

Fuel is one such. ²H and ·³H, as well as ³He, have extensive promise as fusion fuels... and need cryogenic storage, which, while ³He is not uncommon, and ²H is common enough... but keeping them usefully condensed requires either cryogenics or, in the case of Hydrogen, a 4.5 to 9x mass penalty in oxidization. (The safest/easiest way to transport hydrogen, especially deuterium, is oxidized into water... because then it doesn't escape confinement by quantum tunneling.)

Food is another. For all the colonies, probably half or more are likely to be resource extraction colonies. Net exports raw materials, imports food and entertainment.Local sources (Hydroponics and domes) provide stable staples... but the harder to grow long-investment crops (especially tree-fruits) will be trade goods.

Medicines will be another. Cheaper to manufacture in bulk in scale-efficient factories... and more accurate/consistent in concentration, too. The basic staples (anti-inflammatories, analgesics, steroids, other bioregulatories) will be always be valuable. Not flashy, but always saleable. Even when stolen.

Even more important is corporate secrets... to the right buyer, retirement time!

A shipowner does everything he must to keep his ship going, because by the time they get it, it's usually become a pathological obsession. And then, there's that bit about "Space is Hell"... which they flatly deny until the day it maims or kills them.
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Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
AlexanderMars
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Re: Space Combat?

Tue 18 Jun 2019, 16:52


No, there's plenty worth fighting for... and most of it is commodities carried aboard. And those vary. 

Fuel is one such. ²H and ·³H, as well as ³He, have extensive promise as fusion fuels... and need cryogenic storage, which, while ³He is not uncommon, and ²H is common enough... but keeping them usefully condensed requires either cryogenics or, in the case of Hydrogen, a 4.5 to 9x mass penalty in oxidization. (The safest/easiest way to transport hydrogen, especially deuterium, is oxidized into water... because then it doesn't escape confinement by quantum tunneling.)

Food is another. For all the colonies, probably half or more are likely to be resource extraction colonies. Net exports raw materials, imports food and entertainment.Local sources (Hydroponics and domes) provide stable staples... but the harder to grow long-investment crops (especially tree-fruits) will be trade goods.

Medicines will be another. Cheaper to manufacture in bulk in scale-efficient factories... and more accurate/consistent in concentration, too. The basic staples (anti-inflammatories, analgesics, steroids, other bioregulatories) will be always be valuable. Not flashy, but always saleable. Even when stolen.

Even more important is corporate secrets... to the right buyer, retirement time!

A shipowner does everything he must to keep his ship going, because by the time they get it, it's usually become a pathological obsession. And then, there's that bit about "Space is Hell"... which they flatly deny until the day it maims or kills them.
Okay, we’re probably going to have to agree to disagree. To me that reads more about reasons for space piracy and not space combat.

I don’t think space pirates makes any sense in the setting, the economics and consequences alone would make it prohibitive in the setting. If you really want to go pirate hunting play Coriolis, the game setting was pretty much designed to support that kind of adventure. In Alien, you’re not going to duke it out with an adversary for some bananas and bandages.

Obviously in the end it’s your game. Personally I would be disappointed and think the design team clueless if they included dogfighting spaceships and space pirates in the rules. I really don’t see Alien as the setting for those kinds of adventures.

In Alien, a ship is very expensive to say the least, it’s unlikely that many are in private hands outside of the corporations. Unlike the age of sail(wind was free and wood accessible), fuel and maintenance are also expensive. You could easily spend more in fuel and repairing any damage than you would make selling any cargo won, it just doesn’t make sense on a balance sheet.

That gets us to consequences. Alien is a setting with FTL communications and powerful corporations that tolerate very little, shall we say entrepreneurial spirit. I would assume that extensive capabilities for sensor forensics exist. I can’t imagine pirates would have very long to operate before attracting attention from the authorities.

Unlike WY or the marines, pirates aren’t going to be able to re-arm expended missiles without comprehensive logistical support. Even if your ships has missiles(most probably don’t) it’s not the kind of thing you can buy without licenses and probably filing paperwork about where the missiles you already had we’re used.

Piracy in Alien takes place in boardrooms with lawyers and contracts. A commercial freighter crew is never going to repel boarders, there’s a good chance they won’t have any guns anyway. That’s part of what makes the setting so scary, it’s all mundane and workaday. You’re just hustling for a percentage until you wake up in a total nightmare.

Someone else’s cargo is only worth the effort when it’s of interest to bio-weapons division, and even then the last thing you’d want to do is start shooting.
 
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Deep_Impact
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Re: Space Combat?

Tue 18 Jun 2019, 17:08

As far as I remember piracy is quite real in the Alien Universe. BISHOP and his former troop had several missions against pirates. But not in space, they were taking hostages in remote colonies to get ransom from the company to avoid a bad Image under the colonists.
Let's postulate "Dr. Shaw´s Law":

As an Alien RPG discussion grows longer, the probability of whining about Prometheus or Covenant approaches. :)
 
AlexanderMars
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Re: Space Combat?

Tue 18 Jun 2019, 18:13

As far as I remember piracy is quite real in the Alien Universe. BISHOP and his former troop had several missions against pirates. But not in space, they were taking hostages in remote colonies to get ransom from the company to avoid a bad Image under the colonists.
Taking colonists hostage for ransom makes sense, calling that piracy is largely semantic. None of that requires space combat, and the negotiations would probably go down in a conference room in some business park.

Of course there’s going to be scenarios where ships are shooting at each other, but Alien isn’t Star Wars. Space combat should feel more like tense WWII submarine conflict than dogfighting biplanes.
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