Attackmack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Consumables

Mon 03 Jun 2019, 15:13

I think it's important to only use the consumables system when interesting or dramatically correct. If you can plan your spacewalk or hike, have nothing weird happen, and finish on time, you shouldn't even have to roll. You're supposed to roll for air every turn, so how could you ever spend a shift on a spacewalk repairing the outside of the ship?

It's only when something unexpected happens, like you can't return from your spacewalk in time because the airlock is jammed, and suddenly there's a xenomorph on the outside of the ship chasing you: then you roll for air! Suddenly there's double tension. Same thing with food. If they know they'll be gone for four days and mark their daily food packs "Monday, Tuesday" and so on, there's no need to roll every day. But if they lose their backpack and have to survive on their one food ration in their pocket for multiple days, or otherwise end up in situations outside of their control, that's when it becomes interesting.

So I say that in the default controlled situation, you keep the consumable system in the background, but when you start asking questions like "do we even have enough food", that's when you roll. The GM should introduce the system when it adds tension, and otherwise assume the PCs have enough of everything to not put a focus on it.

Also, you can lose food in other ways than from overeating. It may spoil if it's fresh food, or perhaps the expiration date is long gone if it's food packs, or you drop some by mistake while hiking, or the local fauna finds your camp at night and steals some food, or some airborne particles affect it, and so on.
I like this approach!
 
Charlie D
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed 30 Nov 2016, 20:44
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Consumables

Mon 03 Jun 2019, 20:26

While i like the concept as it adds tension and can become a real issue, im having a hard time getting around the narration of it.

If a character carefully packs and rations her food (etc), i cant really see how it could potentially run out the first day without warning.
Similarily, another character only has a single ration but somehow makes it last for over a week.

In forbidden lands, which is kind of a goofy game to begin with, i think its fine, but the more serious and more sensible nature of Alien makes it feel out of place.

Thoughts?

Also, is it correct that you can lose more than one amount each time you check or is it a mistake? (Lose one level per 1 rolled). In theory a person carrying the max number of rations (6) can lose them all the first day, while the one with a single ration can last for days and weeks.
I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
 
Attackmack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Consumables

Mon 03 Jun 2019, 22:07

While i like the concept as it adds tension and can become a real issue, im having a hard time getting around the narration of it.

If a character carefully packs and rations her food (etc), i cant really see how it could potentially run out the first day without warning.
Similarily, another character only has a single ration but somehow makes it last for over a week.

In forbidden lands, which is kind of a goofy game to begin with, i think its fine, but the more serious and more sensible nature of Alien makes it feel out of place.

Thoughts?

Also, is it correct that you can lose more than one amount each time you check or is it a mistake? (Lose one level per 1 rolled). In theory a person carrying the max number of rations (6) can lose them all the first day, while the one with a single ration can last for days and weeks.
I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Consumables

Mon 03 Jun 2019, 22:18

While i like the concept as it adds tension and can become a real issue, im having a hard time getting around the narration of it.

If a character carefully packs and rations her food (etc), i cant really see how it could potentially run out the first day without warning.
Similarily, another character only has a single ration but somehow makes it last for over a week.

In forbidden lands, which is kind of a goofy game to begin with, i think its fine, but the more serious and more sensible nature of Alien makes it feel out of place.

Thoughts?

Also, is it correct that you can lose more than one amount each time you check or is it a mistake? (Lose one level per 1 rolled). In theory a person carrying the max number of rations (6) can lose them all the first day, while the one with a single ration can last for days and weeks.
I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
... and you will have to houserule a more "safe and controllable" way of doing the consumables because that rule will not go away, especially not since it is a GM discretion when to use it or when not to.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
Attackmack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Consumables

Mon 03 Jun 2019, 22:23



I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
... and you will have to houserule a more "safe and controllable" way of doing the consumables because that rule will not go away, especially not since it is a GM discretion when to use it or when not to.
It was never my intention to make anything go away  :?:
 
Charlie D
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed 30 Nov 2016, 20:44
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Consumables

Tue 04 Jun 2019, 13:50

While i like the concept as it adds tension and can become a real issue, im having a hard time getting around the narration of it.

If a character carefully packs and rations her food (etc), i cant really see how it could potentially run out the first day without warning.
Similarily, another character only has a single ration but somehow makes it last for over a week.

In forbidden lands, which is kind of a goofy game to begin with, i think its fine, but the more serious and more sensible nature of Alien makes it feel out of place.

Thoughts?

Also, is it correct that you can lose more than one amount each time you check or is it a mistake? (Lose one level per 1 rolled). In theory a person carrying the max number of rations (6) can lose them all the first day, while the one with a single ration can last for days and weeks.
I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
You asked for my thoughts. If you aren't interested then I'd suggest not asking next time. 

Or we could discuss our differing opinions (and they are just opinions not facts in this case) since this is a forum designed to facilitate discussion about Fria Ligan games. 
 
Attackmack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Consumables

Tue 04 Jun 2019, 19:10



I would never describe the Forbidden Lands as goofy. The FL are a bloody dangerous place. Cannibilism, slavery, human sacrifice, body horror, and worse. Scary place.

As to Alien and consummables it makes perfect sense to me. In the movies you never see a person counting up exact rations and bean counting. Bullets run out but do we ever learn exactly how many they had to start? Supplies get unloaded but no one is counting. And bad things happen anyway. The dice help show how cruel and caprcious the Alien universe is. One little girl can survive for weeks on who knows what while another person might find out that rats have eaten two full days of rations. Just like some people lose it when confronting an alien and freeze or panic and others gear up and start fighting back. You don't really know how your character will react when confronted with the harshness of the Alien universe. Turning consummables into bean counting goes against the genre. And honestly, I'd find it less fun to know I control the Alien universe with math instead of the Alien universe is in control and trying to kill my character!

And even in real life I've seen food go wrong. Spill the mac 'n' cheese while backpacking or leave several meals behind has happened. Underestimate how much you need. Racoon steals your bread. Or even worse sometimes a backpacker attracts a bear who decides you contain more rations than your backpack does.
But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
You asked for my thoughts. If you aren't interested then I'd suggest not asking next time. 

Or we could discuss our differing opinions (and they are just opinions not facts in this case) since this is a forum designed to facilitate discussion about Fria Ligan games. 
I want to apologise because reading through the posts today I realise I came off very rude to you, it is not my intent with this thread and not the kind of discussion I enjoy, probably because of tiredness I read your reply halfheartedly and then wrote out a reply.

Im sorry for that.

And I very much appreciate the opinions that differs from my own since trying to see it from different angles always leads to a better idea in the end.
As for the topic itself, I do like the concept and it does fit very well I think in the "cinematic play" they offer in this game. As Ive mentioned earlier I have no issues with this applying to oxygen and battery power, it feels reasonable that we dont have exact knowledge about how much oxygen were using or how long a battery will really last. But food and water, being actual physical "stuff" we carry along with us I dont think should be put to the same unpredictable system.

Having thought about it some more, however, I realise that most of the times supply will last a fair amount of time. The freak situations where an unlucky player rolls four 1s on their first roll is very uncommon, and when they do happen it will indicate that something has gone very wrong.

Im still unsure about it but I will definitely make the first session follow the rules as written and adjust if me or my group wishes to.
 
Charlie D
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed 30 Nov 2016, 20:44
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Consumables

Tue 04 Jun 2019, 19:42



But were not watching the characters in the game, we are controlling them.
I dont think I agree with anything you wrote tbh, the game can be just as tense and dangerous without the need to randomise the availability of the characters possessions.

And yeah, Forbidden Lands is pretty goofy no matter how much death and despair it includes.
You asked for my thoughts. If you aren't interested then I'd suggest not asking next time. 

Or we could discuss our differing opinions (and they are just opinions not facts in this case) since this is a forum designed to facilitate discussion about Fria Ligan games. 
I want to apologise because reading through the posts today I realise I came off very rude to you, it is not my intent with this thread and not the kind of discussion I enjoy, probably because of tiredness I read your reply halfheartedly and then wrote out a reply.

Im sorry for that.

And I very much appreciate the opinions that differs from my own since trying to see it from different angles always leads to a better idea in the end.
As for the topic itself, I do like the concept and it does fit very well I think in the "cinematic play" they offer in this game. As Ive mentioned earlier I have no issues with this applying to oxygen and battery power, it feels reasonable that we dont have exact knowledge about how much oxygen were using or how long a battery will really last. But food and water, being actual physical "stuff" we carry along with us I dont think should be put to the same unpredictable system.

Having thought about it some more, however, I realise that most of the times supply will last a fair amount of time. The freak situations where an unlucky player rolls four 1s on their first roll is very uncommon, and when they do happen it will indicate that something has gone very wrong.

Im still unsure about it but I will definitely make the first session follow the rules as written and adjust if me or my group wishes to.
Apology accepted. It is all good. 

I can see your point and for some gamers some types of consumables just don't make sense. I think that trying the rules out first makes a lot of sense before going to house rules if needed. Seems like a solid plan to me. Hopefully you'll post back here about how it goes and what you and your group decided to go with.
 
Attackmack
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 03:22

Re: Consumables

Tue 04 Jun 2019, 19:55


You asked for my thoughts. If you aren't interested then I'd suggest not asking next time. 

Or we could discuss our differing opinions (and they are just opinions not facts in this case) since this is a forum designed to facilitate discussion about Fria Ligan games. 
I want to apologise because reading through the posts today I realise I came off very rude to you, it is not my intent with this thread and not the kind of discussion I enjoy, probably because of tiredness I read your reply halfheartedly and then wrote out a reply.

Im sorry for that.

And I very much appreciate the opinions that differs from my own since trying to see it from different angles always leads to a better idea in the end.
As for the topic itself, I do like the concept and it does fit very well I think in the "cinematic play" they offer in this game. As Ive mentioned earlier I have no issues with this applying to oxygen and battery power, it feels reasonable that we dont have exact knowledge about how much oxygen were using or how long a battery will really last. But food and water, being actual physical "stuff" we carry along with us I dont think should be put to the same unpredictable system.

Having thought about it some more, however, I realise that most of the times supply will last a fair amount of time. The freak situations where an unlucky player rolls four 1s on their first roll is very uncommon, and when they do happen it will indicate that something has gone very wrong.

Im still unsure about it but I will definitely make the first session follow the rules as written and adjust if me or my group wishes to.
Apology accepted. It is all good. 

I can see your point and for some gamers some types of consumables just don't make sense. I think that trying the rules out first makes a lot of sense before going to house rules if needed. Seems like a solid plan to me. Hopefully you'll post back here about how it goes and what you and your group decided to go with.
Thank you.

Yes I will for sure post here when ive had a first session. Hoping its not far off, we usually have a hard time getting the group together and when we do we have other games going. But I think they are all Alien fans and suggesting a one-shot evening shouldnt be too hard!
 
RenoGM
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed 17 Oct 2018, 04:20

Re: Consumables

Fri 21 Jun 2019, 16:43

One of the elements that really cranks up stress and anxiety is having plans go sideways. Even simple things not going according to plan can totally derail a person. I've watched people completely lose it because traffic was a little heavier than they planned for! 

As a rule most of the gamers I know what their stats/equipment/ratings to mean something "concrete" in order to be reliable (i.e. remove randomness and become predictable). However in a survival horror style game unpredictability is the exact element that contributes to that feeling of stress and anxiety. If you want the players having control over some of their assets and not having to worry about them, or at least being able to predict consumption rates, then ignore the Consumables rule. However, when you want to start eroding control and undermining confidence, try using the rule. It's about forcing the PC's to react to things escalating beyond their control.

My point is that I use the Consumables rule like any other, as a tool to produce a certain feel when I want, or need to, produce that feel. It's like tracking exact time in an RPG, it isn't necessarily relevant until it's relevant, then it can be really relevant! 
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