gribble
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 05:33

[English] Help with translation

Fri 03 Jun 2016, 09:38

Hi guys, apologies for the English in the Swedish forums... but (despite what I'm trying to do) I don't speak Swedish!

I'm trying to translate the Svavelvinter (v1) rules to English - not for any professional purpose, but just because I like what I've seen in the English quickstart rules, and I'd like to play the full game. I've mainly been using Google translate for this purpose, and it seems to be reasonably understandable.

However, occasionally it throws up a word or sentence that just doesn't make sense (or doesn't even translate), and I was hoping some native Swedish speakers who also speak English could help me with the translations. To start with, here are a few terms that don't seem to translate:

ödestärningar - From context this seems to be "Fate dice" from the English quick start - is that correct?
Dådslag - Again, from context this seems to be a "regular test" from the English quick start - is that correct?
Hyrsvärd - Google pretty consistently wants to translate this as "leased host", which doesn't make a lot of sense. If this a term of mercenaries, property holdings, or something else?
Drogmakeri - Is this "Drug maker", or is "Alchemist" perhaps a better translation?
Hållhakar - Google seems to think this is "keep hooks" or "hold hooks" depending on context, but I really have no idea what it might be?

That's all for now, but I'm sure there will be more, especially once I get the the Abilities & Magic sections!
 
User avatar
Brior
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat 09 Apr 2011, 10:59

Re: [English] Help with translation

Fri 03 Jun 2016, 10:26

Hello Gribble. Some clarification (hopefully - I wrote the world but I'm not an expert on the game system)
ödestärningar - From context this seems to be "Fate dice" from the English quick start - is that correct?
Yes
Dådslag - Again, from context this seems to be a "regular test" from the English quick start - is that correct?
Yes (pretty sure)
Hyrsvärd - Google pretty consistently wants to translate this as "leased host", which doesn't make a lot of sense. If this a term of mercenaries, property holdings, or something else?
Hyrsvärd = "sword for hire" (svärd = "sword", värd = "host" – hence the confusion)
Drogmakeri - Is this "Drug maker", or is "Alchemist" perhaps a better translation?
Drogmakeri would be the practice, "drug makery" – the art of making drugs and potions
Hållhakar - Google seems to think this is "keep hooks" or "hold hooks" depending on context, but I really have no idea what it might be?
To have a "hållhake" is to have something on somebody, something that lets you apply pressure for a favour, use blackmail etc. (hålla + hake would literally be "hold" + "grips")

Cheers!
Erik G
 
gribble
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 05:33

Re: [English] Help with translation

Fri 03 Jun 2016, 12:03

Thanks Eric - makes a lot of sense!

A few follow on questions and additional terms:
1) Would "Drug makery" be the same thing as "Alchemy"? Or is it closer to "Chemistry"?
2) Would Hållhakar best be translated as "Blackmailers" then, as it's in the context of a Shadow play resource?
3) smickelbräde - no idea what this one is...
4) spåfolk - wise people? Ancient people? Seems to literally be "small people", but in context it seems it's maybe trying to refer to wise/ancient races?
5) ödesbanor - is this destiny?

Thanks again!
 
User avatar
Brior
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat 09 Apr 2011, 10:59

Re: [English] Help with translation

Fri 03 Jun 2016, 13:01

Thanks Eric - makes a lot of sense!
Some additional comments (I'll skip the quotation thing)

A few follow on questions and additional terms:
1) Would "Drug makery" be the same thing as "Alchemy"? Or is it closer to "Chemistry"?

* Without looking at the text I would say that "Drug makery" is more general and might include alchemy and/or chemistry (as of the time). I think more of an apothecary, but would keep the art general. Others may have more to say.

2) Would Hållhakar best be translated as "Blackmailers" then, as it's in the context of a Shadow play resource?

* The word hållhakar does have a negative connotation, but might be a little wider than actual blackmail. All words simply can't be translated exactly.

3) smickelbräde - no idea what this one is...

* This is a fictional game in Trachoria, played on a board similar to chess, but with different setups, pieces and more physical game elements (like chopping a piece in two with your sword before the opponent can claim it and thus save half the value). One of the basic concept of the game is to be the one who sets or tweaks the rules to his advantage. I've had some inspiration from the game Calvinball: http://calvinandhobbes.wikia.com/wiki/Calvinball

4) spåfolk - wise people? Ancient people? Seems to literally be "small people", but in context it seems it's maybe trying to refer to wise/ancient races?

* Spåfolk translates to seers.

5) ödesbanor - is this destiny?

* Don't exactly know without the context, but I think it means the trajectory of your destiny. "Banor" is "tracks" in this context.

Thanks again!

* NP
 
Baldyr
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 13:07

Re: [English] Help with translation

Sat 04 Jun 2016, 18:31

The word "hyrsvärd" migth be an arcane word for mercenary, but as Swedish words are often constructed as composites of other words you could also suspect it was a hap-hazard composition of the author. So you would combine the words "hyr" (for hire) and "svärd" (sword) inte a new word meanind "sword for hire", which is the literal meaning of "hyrsvärd".

If you aren't able to translate a Swedish word, try to parse and translate the individual components. Since you basically can build new Swedish words on-the-fly no lexicon will ever be complete. Like I can make up the word rollspelsöversättningsdilemma which may or may not ever have been used before anywhere, but it is a legal Swedish word nonetheless. Try to translate it!
 
gribble
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 05:33

Re: [English] Help with translation

Sun 05 Jun 2016, 03:36

Thanks, that is good to know and helps with the translation effort!

For hyrsvärd, I think "sell sword" (basically a sword for hire) is the best translation.

The biggest problem I have is figuring out where the breaks in the words are. For rollspelsöversättningsdilemma, I'm assuming that's "rollspels översättnings dilemma" or "roleplaying translation dilemma", which probably translates best as "problem (maybe help) with translating the RPG"?
 
Baldyr
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 13:07

Re: [English] Help with translation

Sun 05 Jun 2016, 16:02

Yeah, you of course got it right. :D

I'd rather focus on deciphering the rules and explaining them to the players, than bothering with the most exact translation of arcane or strange words. So "mercenarie" would be most clear to your players. Or perhaps some other, more flavorful, synonym in English.
 
User avatar
Gaddeborg
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue 18 Feb 2014, 17:40

Re: [English] Help with translation

Sun 05 Jun 2016, 20:38

It´s a really good game, you are doing right by translating it :)

Are you going to play it with the world included, Trakorien/Trakoria, or are you going to use the rules to your own world?
 
gribble
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 05:33

Re: [English] Help with translation

Tue 07 Jun 2016, 02:36

Baldyr - definitely agree about not needing the most exact translation, but in order to determine the best english word to use it helps to understand the context of what the author is trying to say. I think hyrsvärd is a great example. The literal translation "sword for hire", while grammatically correct English that people would understand, just doesn't really flow well. "Mercenary" is a better translation, but is quite dry and lacks flavour. Hence I like "sell sword", which is clear, flavourful and probably technically the closest to the words the author originally used.
BTW - contextually, which of my translations was "right":
- "roleplaying translation dilemma";
- "problem with translating RPG"; or
- "help with translating RPG"?

Gaddeborg - yes, I agree! While I'd prefer to play it with the world included, my focus is going to be on translating the rules. Partly because I can then use the rules with other settings, but mainly because I expect translating the setting correctly will be *much* more difficult than translating the rules. Bearing in mind that this is really my first ever attempt at translating Swedish...

To give everyone some idea how it's looking, here is a *very rough* first draft of where I'm at. It basically is just the first pass translation of the second & third chapters, plus the "alchemy" chapter (which was my formatting trial as it seemed to be fairly small). I haven't yet done a second pass through to paraphrase and tidy up where google mangles things horribly. So there likely will be some bits that don't make sense. But it's probably 95% comprehensible, which isn't too bad.

PS: this is Fria Ligan proprietary content, so if it isn't ok to link to it here, please let me know moderators and I'll remove!
 
gribble
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2016, 05:33

Re: [English] Help with translation

Fri 10 Jun 2016, 03:57

Thanks all for your help so far - the tip about trying to split up words has helped a lot.

However, I have a new batch of words and phrases that I (or at least google) can't seem to make sense of - help appreciated to translate the meaning:

Words - I've added notes where I've been able to derive some meaning:
  • lagvrängare
  • lydkaraktär
  • färdebrev
  • Somatrofi/ Somatrofiär - is this best translated as "Shagulite arts"?
  • Huligan, Mogul, Columna (ranks of Somatrofi)
  • Bansikan
  • Lurpass
  • okvädning - I think the quickstart translates this as "profanity", but that seems oddly specific to swearing - is it more about insults and verbal taunts?
Phrases:
  • First, I'm trying to understand the Trakoriska / Trakoriens. I realise it's related to the name of the country/world, but I'm not sure which is the adjective (describing a thing) which I think would be Trakor*ian* in English, and which is the collective noun (describing a group of people with that nationality), which I think should be Trakor*ians* in English.
  • Google translates the italic part of the sentence "Legendariska hugg: Dina attacker med minst en ÖT kan skada drakar, demoner och liknande varelser, även om ditt vapen inte är förtrollat (sid 146)." as "even if your weapon is enchanted", which given the context doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Should this be "even if your weapon is not enchanted"?
  • Google translates the italic part of the sentence "Spådom: Om du utför en ritual som tar en scen i anspråk as "scene in the claims". I've seen this a few times, but I'm not sure what it means? Some kind of special scene?
  • "Kroppsdelar som huggits av lever vidare på egen hand" - google tranlsates this as pretty much gibberish.
  • "Skada från hugg- och stickvapen halveras" - I'm not sure what the word (prefix?) "hugg-" means here (or in general) I think it refers to weapons of some kind?
  • "Läkekonst drar nytta av giftkokares brygder, kan bruka alkemisters pulver och använda lärospån från ytterligare andra områden." - again, google translates this a gibberish.
Thanks again!
GZIP: Off