bpm7
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Why play a caster?

Wed 22 Dec 2021, 23:28

tl;dr: casters seem like terrible classes vs all the others, actively and heavily encouraged to push and fail rolls to just do what their class is for- am I wrong?



New GM for Forbidden Lands but long time MYZ GM here, and I'm a bit confused about one aspect of FBL.

As I understand it:

1. Magic users use Willpower to cast. Ok, clear.

2. You can only get Willpower Points by failing pushed rolls and taking some form of damage.

3. The game very explicitly states: "DON’T ROLL TOO OFTEN In Forbidden Lands, a dice roll is a dramatic moment. Pushing rolls can give you damage but also Willpower Points. Rolling dice too often slows the game down and can generate an excess of Willpower Points. Thus, you should only roll dice when absolutely necessary, in dramatic situations or tough challenges"

So as it stands, it sounds like any spellcaster would need to try hard to get rolls, push them every time and hope to fail to get any ability to cast. I get that they can fight too but they will have put their points into Wits if they want to be good at casting, and the game already seems to make PCs pretty squishy even with decent Strength.

I get that the spells always work, but a lot of them especially at Rank 1 don't read as terribly amazing in play, but I haven't run the game yet so maybe I'm wrong.

In short: why would anyone choose a spellcaster if your entire class ability is based on seeking out self harm and failure in an already somewhat deadly game?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Why play a caster?

Wed 22 Dec 2021, 23:58

A druid or a sorcerer use weapons and armor like everybody else (if they want to). There can be a lot of skill rolls in this game because a lot of situations can be dramatic. There are plenty of skill rolls to be made. There are a lot of situations that is "dramatic". Lead the Way, Keep Watch and Make Camp is for the most part something that you roll for. Food gathering skill rolls may be not be a dramatic moment if the players already have plenty of food and can in that case just be assumed successful, but if the players don't have food, then it should be rolled for.

When you go out and explore, there are a lot of different things that you do, spells help with a lot of things in the game, not just in fights. Some spells are used rarely, some more often.

Magic is talent based in this game and doesn't use attributes. A typical sorcerer may have above average wits, but that is not necessary when you cast spells. If you want to create some sort of battle mage, then Str 4, Agl 3, Wit 4 Emp 3 is the way to go together with Blood Magic. You might not start the game with sword and chain armor but with time you will get it and there are plenty of general weapons to increase your expertise in fighting so you can use both sword and sorcery in your adventure.

I have played 58 sessions of this game and my players pretty much always had WP, usually around 3-6. When my players played druids and sorcerers they used weapons and armor and they fight like anyone else. They used spells every now and then, but not all the time.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Konungr
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Re: Why play a caster?

Thu 23 Dec 2021, 01:07

As Fenhorn says, the biggest consistent hurdle for people seems to be thinking that the "casters" are purely casters. They are not.
 
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Arnold
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Re: Why play a caster?

Thu 23 Dec 2021, 08:34

Per Talent (exampel Path of shiled for the fighter), any noncaster gets the ability to do 3 amazing deeds (exampel path of shiled 1, 2 and 3) with willpower.
As spellcaster, you get up to 10 or 11 deeds with willpower (exampel path of healing) and the general spells as bonus.

What you get as spellcaster is a good list of oppotunities to use you willpower. This makes you far more flexibel.
And, don´t forget, you can develop spells on your own, and you can create artifacts with bind magic.
 
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pellejones
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Re: Why play a caster?

Thu 23 Dec 2021, 12:58

Magic is also extremely strong! Most spells completely ignore armour etc and just deals direct damage and can kill or incapacitate a foe immediately.

And like said ready, magic users can wear armour, and fight like anyone else can. They can take all the general talents and so on.
 
shane18
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Re: Why play a caster?

Thu 23 Dec 2021, 15:51

I am VERY new to this game... and am looking forward to the different feel of a spell caster. Most RPG worlds I've played in leans more toward high magic, or common magic. The different twist on spell casters is very appealing to me. ;)
 
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Melvin
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Re: Why play a caster?

Fri 24 Dec 2021, 01:23

The most magic user's deaths in my campaign are from rolling a 66 on the mishap table. So you know ^_^

They use spells less often now, and try to safe cast as often as possible.
 
A_Veidt
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Re: Why play a caster?

Fri 24 Dec 2021, 13:38

Like some other people mentioned here, casters are not purely casters... unless they are very good already. Also, not being a good combat class (which they can certainly be) doesnt mean they are useless... they can bind or dispel demons, see past and future, melt rock, speak with the dead, etc. Using safe casting with a grimoire and ingredients gives you spells of 2-3 power level with no risk!

True, they need willpower to cast spells, but there is at least one ritual to drain WP from living things, and another one to store WP in runes if I remember correctly. And they can always use the general spell 'Transfer' to steal WP from their victims.

However, starting out can be a bit challenging for all characters, and specially casters, that's why I allow them one free WP every time they rest if they have none stored (to all classes), and they can create potions to temporarily increase their WP at a cost if Strength or Agility points (drink the potion, get 1 or 2 WP and take damage with an attack of 5d6 to 10d6 or so, depending on the quality of the potion; drinking too much is dangerous).

Additionally, I also allow neutralisation of banes in the magic roll with willpower points, representing your will and effort to control the spell when it's about to go wrong... otherwise, good luck with the mishap table.
 
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pellejones
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Re: Why play a caster?

Sun 26 Dec 2021, 11:24

Additionally, I also allow neutralisation of banes in the magic roll with willpower points, representing your will and effort to control the spell when it's about to go wrong... otherwise, good luck with the mishap table.
Or you can use the 100 alternate magic mishap table that is way less lethal and adds more role-playing to the mishaps :)

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/301159
 
A_Veidt
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Re: Why play a caster?

Sun 26 Dec 2021, 20:44

True, it's a pretty good table!

But just to emphasise on the perceived difficulties for casters to obtain WP... you either homebrew it (I like dangerous potions, see above) or they start being clever sorcerers and use TRANSFER on unconscious enemies to steal their WP, and then use a grimoire and spell ingredients to safely cast decently potent spells.

I love the possibilities open to ambitious sorcerers in this game! Just imagine, you can top up your WP by consuming the living force of plants and animals around you (STEAL LIFE), then store it in runes of power (POWER RUNE) or create a magical sword that steals the soul of its victims on first blood (BIND MAGIC + BIND SOUL), open a portal to a world beyond the void (PORTAL) and bind a demon to your will (BIND DEMON). Obviously these are different paths of magic, but TRANSFER is a general spell and thus it's accesible to all magic users.

The question "why play a caster?" really shocks me, but I understand this magic system looks very different to people used to other games.

The very use of the word "caster" seems to me like it doesnt apply to this game, like it wouldnt apply to Thoth-Amon in Hyborea when summoning a demon to kill Conan in 'The Phoenix on the Sword'.

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