jasonwocky
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Joined: Tue 07 Jul 2020, 23:59

Re: Foraging for water

Mon 13 Jul 2020, 22:09

I think its important to remember that a roll of the resource die is a RATION of water/food. This osnt 3 meals a day with plenty to drink. This is enough to stay alive. Thats it. You are not drinking liters a day for 11 days. You are getting 2 maybe 3 mouthfuls of water a day for 11 days.
By rule, it's enough to not take the THIRSTY condition. If you're hiking 20 kilometers a day on uneven ground, I guarantee you that's more than 2 or 3 mouthfuls of water per day.
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 09:39

Re: Foraging for water

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 00:32

Yes. But the thirsty condition is not representative of being thirsty. Its representative of begining to die of thirst. Which happens if you don't get a ration of water.

Look at what Thirsty and Hungry do mechanically
Having those conditions means you are dying. Not that you are uncomfortable. You are actually going to die if not corrected.

No. Its not a perfect simulation of reality. Its a game. But its pretty clear that is what it represents. If you find a source of fresh water not only can you fill your water skin you can just drink your fill from the source and roll no resource dice. Because you are not dealing in rations at that point.
 
gru
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Re: Foraging for water

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 02:39

I would love to hear the designer's intent behind tracking water. Is it for completeness? For realism? If water is very easy to access, why track it? Couldn't the game be simplified without losing depth if we didn't track water?

Or perhaps it's to enable playing in different locale? On reddit I saw a fellow who made Dark Sun on FL. Perhaps there the access to water would be reduced.

Or maybe it allows the GM to have regions were water access will be limited even in Raven Land and will force the players to handle the water.

And yes, I know that almost every RPG comes with a preamble that it's a framework, and variants and allows changing things. But I suppose that the author of the game had some gameplay in mind and I would love to know what that gameplay is and how each piece of mechanic fits into that.
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
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Re: Foraging for water

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 04:50

It very much seems to me to be about the survival aspect of the game. It's not just treking around the wilderness. But what happens if you get stuck in a labyrinth of an adventure site? How long do your supplies last?

Mostly it doesn't matter. Until it does. And then it REALLY freakin matters.
 
gru
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Re: Foraging for water

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 07:14

If you get stuck in a labyrinth or an adventure site, a single consumable (e.g. provisions instead of food/water), would handle that equally well.

I feel like carrying water mostly increases the encumbrance by 1, without additional effects. Perhaps that's the intent.
 
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Ebrim
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Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2019, 22:51

Re: Foraging for water

Tue 14 Jul 2020, 15:39

I think of The Long Dark where you’re literally surrounded by water all the time in the form of snow (this is also true of The Bitter Reach) but it’s still a meaningful game mechanic. You have to take time and fuel to make it usable, it’s one more thing you have to carry, etc. It’s puts more practical limits on what you can do and survival gameplay is all about managing scarcity (including time).

Water in the Ravenland is abundant but you still have to take time to forage for it from time to time. An arrow that puts a hole through your waterskin is going to put you in a nasty place. I’d also argue, as I did above, that water should be tested more frequently in most cases than once a day.
Catch me on Three Skulls Tavern: YouTube or Twitch, an instructional AP dedicated to Year Zero games. Currently playing in a Raven’s Purge campaign and GM’ing a campaign of Vaesen.
 
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EinBein
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Re: Foraging for water

Wed 15 Jul 2020, 23:38

I would also question the quality of the water available. If you are outdoors in real life, it is not recommended to just drink from any stream regardless of how clean it looks. A single dead animal upstream will ruin your day profoundly.

Also, many rivers (like the ones close to the Lumra mines) are red from minerals or dirt and may also not be drinkable.

To just allow endless refilling because there is a body of water on the map is thus not really realistic. However, as many have said before, it comes down to the emphasis you want to put on survival.

Edit: A factor from real life I forgot is spoiling (especially at medium to high temperatures). The knowledge of the dangers of water that is kept for too long (due to Legionella or other bacteria as we know today) may have caused also people in medieval times to empty their skins from time to time...
 
jasonwocky
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Joined: Tue 07 Jul 2020, 23:59

Re: Foraging for water

Tue 21 Jul 2020, 15:06

I would also question the quality of the water available. If you are outdoors in real life, it is not recommended to just drink from any stream regardless of how clean it looks. A single dead animal upstream will ruin your day profoundly.
Sure but I think we can assume that to the degree this is an actual risk in the setting ( which has as much to do with the bacteria in our characters' guts as anything), the PCs can be assumed to be boiling their collected water during camp.
 
jasonwocky
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 07 Jul 2020, 23:59

Re: Foraging for water

Tue 21 Jul 2020, 15:10

Yes. But the thirsty condition is not representative of being thirsty. Its representative of begining to die of thirst. Which happens if you don't get a ration of water.
Again I'd hold that if you're hiking for 20km a day while carrying a ton of gear and drinking only a few mouthfuls of water each day, you will be dying of thirst. You'll be sweating out way more than you're taking in.
No. Its not a perfect simulation of reality. Its a game. But its pretty clear that is what it represents. If you find a source of fresh water not only can you fill your water skin you can just drink your fill from the source and roll no resource dice. Because you are not dealing in rations at that point.
I don't have any issue with that part. My issue was with the notion that once you've moved away from a water source, you can hike for 11 days without needing to find more (all the while also carrying STRx2 other items). Doesn't need to be nerfed into oblivion or absolute realism to satisfy me, but as a backpacker some things defy my suspension of belief too much.

The main counterpoint in my mind is that the PCs are probably coming across water at some frequency without needing to forage at all, and I get that their ration die is somewhat abstracting that. That said if the game is going to model water, I'd prefer it to actually matter (and make the Talent related to it matter) at least sometimes.
 
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lupex
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Re: Foraging for water

Tue 21 Jul 2020, 16:41

But its not 11 days, its possibly lots of days (maybe assuming topping up from rainwater etc) or it could only be 5 days if you roll badly. I guess the intent is to make it matter to some degree but not offer super realism. And I believe the current system finds that balance.

My suggestion would be to do what you feel is right for your game.

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