d(sqrt(-1))
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2016, 16:29
Location: UK

Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 18:58

Ok, after some Discord discussion, I have a question about skill rolls, rerolls and helping (this was initially triggered regarding Heal, but it seems more generally applicable):

Context:

p46: Only One Chance: "Once you have rolled for a skill you may not roll again, you need to try something different, wait for circumstances to change. Or let another player try."
p108: Recovery: successful roll for Healing recovers points equal to 6s rolled. Further Healing rolls have no effect and the same person can only try once
p108: Death: If critical injury is listed as Lethal, it needs a successful Healing roll. If you recover attributes before you die you can try to heal yourself at -2. Each person trying to heal you can try only once"

- If a PC is down and dying, is the intent that multiple PCs can try to Heal? Obviously one can try and others can help to get up to +3 dice, but from what I can see above there is no reason why multiple people cannot try to Heal a broken PC. The Group Rolls section on p47 seems to say not, but this also seems to run counter to what p 46 and 108 say...but see below

- p108 Recovery is referring to (I think) that if a SUCCESSFUL Heal roll has been made, no more can be done - this is consistent with how healing is normally used - only heal broken people.

- If someone helps on a skill roll, and the roll fails, does that preclude the helper from trying themselves? It feels like it ought to - I think that is what the Group Rolls on p47 is referring to, those of you who help are counted as having made a test.

So, with a broken PC it would seem to me that the rules say

Several attempts (by different PCs) can be made to try to Heal a Broken PC. If others help an attempt then that also counts as them having used the skill so they could not make further attempts. However PCs who have not tried and not helped COULD try a Heal roll if a previous one has failed.

Is that the intent of the rules? Some opinion was that you can only get one attempt at a skill regardless, but this doesn't seem to me to be what the rules say.
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 09:39

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 19:16

I believe the intention is that you can help or you can try. Not both. In helping you are already trying. Once a heal is successful it's done and no further attempts can be made.
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 2254
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 19:32

- If a PC is down and dying, is the intent that multiple PCs can try to Heal? Obviously one can try and others can help to get up to +3 dice, but from what I can see above there is no reason why multiple people cannot try to Heal a broken PC. The Group Rolls section on p47 seems to say not, but this also seems to run counter to what p 46 and 108 say...but see below

To stop a PC from dying (because the critical injury is lethal) is a separate skill roll than the skill roll to make them recover from being broken. The rules state that a skill roll can only be made once per situation and that you can only make another skill roll if the circumstances changes. It also states that if a character fails, another character may try. So this means that every character can try to make a skill roll for a certain situation once. There can be some exploits here so the GM has to say stop if that happens. Rules like the Group roll is one such method.

- p108 Recovery is referring to (I think) that if a SUCCESSFUL Heal roll has been made, no more can be done - this is consistent with how healing is normally used - only heal broken people.

As soon as the character is no longer broken, either because someone made a successful skill roll or d6 hours have passed in which you automatically recover one point in the attribute that made you broken, you can't use the Heal skill for recovery (he already recovered). The Heal skill can of course still be used to stop the character from dying or to care for a character (halving the healing time for the critical injury).

- If someone helps on a skill roll, and the roll fails, does that preclude the helper from trying themselves? It feels like it ought to - I think that is what the Group Rolls on p47 is referring to, those of you who help are counted as having made a test.

The rules doesn't specify that. I think that depends on the skill use. If someone is climbing at tree, he may use the help of his friends to do so. In this case, I would allow his friends to climb the same tree as well. For the heal skill I would either not allow them to help or if I do allow them to help call it a group roll instead.

Helping is not a a group roll. A group roll is something that a group does. Like hunting. If several players go hunting in the same area, they will make a group roll, meaning one will make the roll. The GM may allow those in the group that doesn't roll, to help, but this is situational. Group rolls for Stealth and Scouting has special rules. Everyone in a group is using the same skill, even though only one is actually rolling the dice.

It is up to the GM when to make a skill roll a group roll and when to just rule that those extra helpers are just help.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
d(sqrt(-1))
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2016, 16:29
Location: UK

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 19:47

Ok, so multiple attempts can be made on a Heal roll to recover Broken PCs. That's fine and is consistent with the rules as far as I can see. It's just that with the other conversation there seemed to be many people stating the opposite - only one roll allowed.

I've never thought that the need for a Heal roll from Broken is separate from the Heal roll to stop death - if someone is Broken/Dying and I make a Heal roll, do they not recover Attribute points AND it's stopped them dying? If you recover 1 Attribute point you can Heal yourself at -2 to prevent dying but that seems consistent. Rules don't really say that these are different things.

Healing - certainly separate from all the rest of recovery etc.
Last edited by d(sqrt(-1)) on Sat 04 Jul 2020, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 2254
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 19:55

On the discord, people (me included) mixed in their own interpretations and their own GM discretion. I tried to be as clear from my view as I could in this answer.

Regarding helping. As I said there is no clear answer on that one, but the group roll is an new rule in the YZ family. The group rule a little bit takes the place in those situations where the helpers actually are doing something more than just helping their friend up in the tree. I guess that was the reason they came up with that rule.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
d(sqrt(-1))
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2016, 16:29
Location: UK

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 20:39

I believe the intention is that you can help or you can try. Not both. In helping you are already trying. Once a heal is successful it's done and no further attempts can be made.
Agree completely
 
d(sqrt(-1))
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2016, 16:29
Location: UK

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 22:37

On the discord, people (me included) mixed in their own interpretations and their own GM discretion. I tried to be as clear from my view as I could in this answer.
Appreciate your clarity. I'm interested in what the rules actually say as opposed to peoples' interpretations of what they say.
 
Tywyll
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon 30 Sep 2019, 15:08

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 22:56

On the discord, people (me included) mixed in their own interpretations and their own GM discretion. I tried to be as clear from my view as I could in this answer.
Appreciate your clarity. I'm interested in what the rules actually say as opposed to peoples' interpretations of what they say.
But you've got what it says, "Further Healing rolls have no effect and the same person can only try once"

It doesn't say anything about the roll being successful or not.

And while specific rules override general, nowhere does healing override the default rules that you can't roll more than once for a thing.

The thing to remember is that the rules are a translation and there is a lot where you have to use your best interpretation.
 
User avatar
Fenhorn
Moderator
Posts: 2254
Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Mariestad

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sat 04 Jul 2020, 23:00

On the discord, people (me included) mixed in their own interpretations and their own GM discretion. I tried to be as clear from my view as I could in this answer.
Appreciate your clarity. I'm interested in what the rules actually say as opposed to peoples' interpretations of what they say.
But you've got what it says, "Further Healing rolls have no effect and the same person can only try once"

It doesn't say anything about the roll being successful or not.

And while specific rules override general, nowhere does healing override the default rules that you can't roll more than once for a thing.

The thing to remember is that the rules are a translation and there is a lot where you have to use your best interpretation.
Except of course that the Healing skill (for recovery reasons) can't be used on someone that is not broken so further rolls have no effect.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
d(sqrt(-1))
Topic Author
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2016, 16:29
Location: UK

Re: Regarding Skill checks and also Healing

Sun 05 Jul 2020, 00:24

On the discord, people (me included) mixed in their own interpretations and their own GM discretion. I tried to be as clear from my view as I could in this answer.
Appreciate your clarity. I'm interested in what the rules actually say as opposed to peoples' interpretations of what they say.
But you've got what it says, "Further Healing rolls have no effect and the same person can only try once"

It doesn't say anything about the roll being successful or not.

And while specific rules override general, nowhere does healing override the default rules that you can't roll more than once for a thing.

The thing to remember is that the rules are a translation and there is a lot where you have to use your best interpretation.
Except that bit is in the section talking about Recovery and says "The fastest way to recover from being Broken is for someone else to treat you by SUCCESSFULLY rolling for healing. You immediately recover a number of points in the broken attribute equal to the 6s rolled. Further Healing rolls have no effect, and the same person can only roll once"

So all that is referring to the effects of a successful Healing roll. The reason further Healing doesn't have any effect is the same as the fact that you can't Heal someone who is not Broken. You have to take the context into account.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests