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Ebrim
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2019, 22:51

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Wed 01 Jul 2020, 02:43

Nope, if you're helpless, they just outright kill you if they choose to.
And how would you square this with that's written on page 7 of the GM's Guide?

"As GM, you should basically never kill a defenseless player character."
I’m a big fan of “let them live”. Killing the PCs is not the point of the game and where you can you should err on the side of not. But if a monster’s goal is to eat one of the PCs and it has the opportunity to do so, it will.

I say this both as a GM and as a player who had their character swallowed whole a couple days ago.
Catch me on Three Skulls Tavern: YouTube or Twitch, an instructional AP dedicated to Year Zero games. Currently playing in a Raven’s Purge campaign and GM’ing a campaign of Vaesen.
 
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Rymdhamster
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Wed 01 Jul 2020, 22:36

and as a player who had their character swallowed whole a couple days ago.
We had a character swallowed whole once, so a second character jumped in after him. Character 2 managed to heal Character 1, before being broken himself. So character 1 cut himself out, and managed to pull character 2 to saftey. It was glorious.

It's completly off topic, I just felt I had to mention the story.

Thank you. Carry on.
 
Eldskägg
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 11 Mar 2020, 09:42

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Sun 05 Jul 2020, 18:12

There is 0 issue with a player having the Luck talent unless you want to run a grinder or antagonistic-GM game. It doesn't make them better in combat and the risk of losing a combat is minisculy affected.

Exectutioner would be almost useless in my games as I rarely roll injuries for NPCs. The executioner+axe fighter combo though is worriesome.
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 09:39

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Sun 05 Jul 2020, 20:34

The issue is less that the GM wants to be antagonistic and more that by Lucky 3 that player is circumventing an entire mechanic of the game that I would argue is also one of it's most appealing core features. Risk. Head wounds with no recovery time and no actual negative effect 1) make helmets loose half their mechanics 2) make the whole critical injury table useless 3) make recovery times non existent, 4) make members of the party scrambling to heal lethal injuries non existent...

If any of those mechanics are important to the game (and they are) then anything that automatically circumvents them shouldn't exist.
 
Eldskägg
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 11 Mar 2020, 09:42

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Sun 05 Jul 2020, 21:33

The issue is less that the GM wants to be antagonistic and more that by Lucky 3 that player is circumventing an entire mechanic of the game that I would argue is also one of it's most appealing core features. Risk. Head wounds with no recovery time and no actual negative effect 1) make helmets loose half their mechanics 2) make the whole critical injury table useless 3) make recovery times non existent, 4) make members of the party scrambling to heal lethal injuries non existent...

If any of those mechanics are important to the game (and they are) then anything that automatically circumvents them shouldn't exist.
Lots of talents circumvent rules. It's kind of the point.

A big part of the rules is also the travel the land. But a hunter with the Forest path can ignore almost all those rolls withva few WP. And PCs being short on WP is a non-existant problem after session 2. And this is something that benefits the whole group, compared to Luck that is only affecting the PC with it.
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 09:39

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Mon 06 Jul 2020, 06:31

No they don't.

Talent's might give you 1 free action or additional actions at the cost of willpower (1 free is not a total circumvention of the basic action economy rule. Neither is additional actions at a cost). Executioner at least impacts NPCs and not PCs and so is a little more excusable. But Lucky allows a player, for free, to circumvent multiple mechanics indefinitely without limit. It is a VERY different thing.

It's the difference between bending a rule and breaking it.
 
Eldskägg
Posts: 7
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Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Mon 06 Jul 2020, 07:12

You must really hate elves and druids then. And magic for that matter.
 
d(sqrt(-1))
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Location: UK

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Mon 06 Jul 2020, 11:09

(Caveat: I've not seen Lucky 3 used in a game)
  • For someone to get that Talent they are potentially spending 3+6+9 XP = 18 XP, which is quite a decent amount, and it only mitigates against criticals when the PCs STR is broken. Even if you start with Lucky 1 you still will spend 15 XP on it. You could get 6 (or 5) Skills or Talents at Rank 1 for the same amount.
  • As said, Executioner does cancel out ranks of Lucky, but as a GM I'd be wary of using it too much as it feels a bit like being out to get the PC - unless they annoy some enemies who are known to have that sort of ability up-front.
  • The main problem seems to be that basically it's a bit boring if the Lucky character can always say "Bleeding forehead/Stunned/Pierced Ear" repeatedly (and none of those have a healing time).
  • If I wanted to adjust it I'd probably lean towards saying that you can't choose the same critical twice in the same combat. At least that does mean if multiple criticals are taken there is a bit of effect. However I think that someone being Broken twice in the same combat is unlikely unless Orc/Berserker etc.
  • Another thought - How about that Level 3 still rolls for a critical, but instead of choosing, they can set one of the dice to any number they like? That way they would still be picking up some minor criticals but not completely avoiding them in the range 11-16. RAW the Ranks do stack (no WP expenditure), so that could mean you can use Rank 2 to reverse the roll and then choose to set a die? Maybe too strong? Could even combine it with not having the same critical twice.
 
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Rymdhamster
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat 11 Jan 2014, 16:40

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Mon 06 Jul 2020, 13:20

more that by Lucky 3 that player is circumventing an entire mechanic of the game that I would argue is also one of it's most appealing core features.
And have you checked with the luck 3-player they feel the same thing?

Cause I sure don't XD

I like _some_ risk but there is a pretty big random factor to FL I'm not a great fan of myself.

And it seems to me, that the leauge put Luck 3 in the game for a reason. Quite possibly because they knew risk was pretty random and figured it would not be everybodies cup of tea. I mean, you are currently arguing for ignoring part of the rules, because you feel they are ignoring part of the rules =D
 
Konungr
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 09:39

Re: Anyone tried nerfing Lucky 3?

Mon 06 Jul 2020, 17:17

Its mostly fixed just by giving it a cost. Or making rank 3 where you can increase or decrease the result 1 step.

I.e. you would need to roll 66 twice to get instantly killed with rank 3.

But if you rolled say a 43 and a 62. You first take the lower result, then reverse the numbers ... 34 and then can (if slash) change the result from a wounded shoulder to either a severed tendon or severed ear.

You still suffer a crit. But you get some say about what impacts you the least.

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