withoutscratch
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon 07 Oct 2019, 13:39

Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Mon 07 Oct 2019, 13:41

Hy, first I love your game and the design.
Combat is challeging and the Survival aspekt of the game is a challenge on its own.

My Group is planing to establish a Stronghold soon.
I was chosen to read all the rules about that

I did start to claculate all the needed material and Building time.
Also I did calculate all the needed upkeep cost for the hirelings.

To build

1 Wooden House (The Stronghold)
1 Fire Place
1 Well
1 Root Crellar
1 Tannery
1 INN
48 Gardens (Needed to Provide the needed Food for the resident of the Stronghold)
1 Markplace (Needed to sell produced goods)
1 Remparts
1 Guard Tower
1 Stables
4 Pastures (for 48 Cows)
1 Mill
1 Bakery
36 Farms (For the Winter season, cus Gardens do not Provide Food in this time)

We would need

1.890 Wood
920 Stone

This Town would be inhabited by

24 Farmers
1 Miller (Needed to turn 24 Grain into 24 Flour on a daily Basis)
1 Baker (Needed to turn 24 Flour into 24 Bread on a daily Basis)
1 INN Keeper (Needed to turn Vegetables/Meat to Food on a 24 per day Basis)
2 Tailor (to produce 4 Great Furs per day)
5 Tanner (2 Tanner make 4 Sleeping Fur per Day / 2 Make 2 Boots per day / 1 makes 4 Leather per day)
12 Hunter (To gather 24 Pelt 24 Meat and 12 Tallow per Day)
4 Bowyer ( produce 4 short bows per day)
2 Carpenters (producing 2 Barrels per day)
3 Lumberjacks (to cut 12 wood per day)
10 Guards (to keep all save)
2 Handyman (for upkeep)
2 Buildmaster (to build)
that would be 69 ppl hireling cost per day 449 cp

with the good the stronghold is producing I can get 473 cp per day (with 30% Discount for the Peddlers, no Peddler would pay list price, travel and sell for list price)
I also need to sell gathered food to earn enough money to pay all hirelings.

I even created a timeline when what building would be finished and the production could start. How much food when is produced.

If my group would decide to build this settelment and would bring all resources and hierlings with them,
we would need
1.200 Food to keep them alive during travel
1.200 water for the same reason
120 Barrel for the water
20 Wagons for 200 Items each
40 horse to pull the wagon
48 cows

if all would be paied before hand, we would need 389 GP for the resources (Including wood and Stone) and wagons alone.
with 2 month of salery for the hirlings it would add up to 668 GP

all in all I think thats a bit complex

is this intended?

also to run a Tailor Shop a complete year we would need 1.872 sheep (that would be 156 sheepfolds)

is this intended to?


We actally plan to build a large city...that above is only for 69 ppl...
I will calculate the upkeep for a 1000 soul city but I am not sure if Trade can generate enough money to pay even 69 hirelings...
Last edited by withoutscratch on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 14:09, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
lupex
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun 08 Oct 2017, 13:16

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Mon 07 Oct 2019, 13:50

I think the idea is to start small and build from there, otherwise you are playing medieval sims.
 
withoutscratch
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon 07 Oct 2019, 13:39

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Mon 07 Oct 2019, 14:00

I think the idea is to start small and build from there, otherwise you are playing medieval sims.
thx for your respond

69 ppl is not much to start with
and we are actually plan to build a kindome and wage war aginst the humans

so yes we will organize a big kindom some day
 
User avatar
Ebrim
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue 30 Jul 2019, 22:51

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Mon 07 Oct 2019, 16:46

69 people a whole lot to start with by the scale of Forbidden Lands though clearly not by your ambition. :)

One thing I will say is that what your players will be able to personally oversee will be quite limited. The intention is not to simulate an early feudal economy. While your players may well build a kingdom, beyond their own very small fief that they administer you won’t be paying wages but buying resources as needed or perhaps taxing. So you don’t need to simulate out that far.

At a certain point beyond the “stronghold” itself you’ll have more of a captive market rather than a resource pool that needs specific tracking. At least that’s how I’d handle it.
 
Stockworth
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat 19 May 2018, 05:38

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Mon 07 Oct 2019, 19:40

Also, you don't need to build all the Farms and Gardens to feed all the hirelings. They manage to buy food with their salaries. If you're giving them food in addition to housing them, then you probably don't need to pay them a full salary. See pages 162-163. At least, were I running the group, I'd allow for tenant farmers who work the land in exchange for protection, etc...
Oops, I may have accidentally just invented Feudalism
 
withoutscratch
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon 07 Oct 2019, 13:39

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Tue 08 Oct 2019, 08:07

Also, you don't need to build all the Farms and Gardens to feed all the hirelings. They manage to buy food with their salaries. If you're giving them food in addition to housing them, then you probably don't need to pay them a full salary. See pages 162-163. At least, were I running the group, I'd allow for tenant farmers who work the land in exchange for protection, etc...
Oops, I may have accidentally just invented Feudalism
I greee, the rulz state that
We will settel a days journey away from all settelments, so we all agreed on that the hirelings cant buy food, cus thier is nothig to buy from near by.
We need to feed them till streets are build. to reduce travel time, or a Markplace is established.

Also if we build all Farms and Gardens we own them, and try to sell the food that is left.
 
User avatar
faun
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu 23 May 2019, 20:02
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Stronghold and City Building Cost and Upkeep

Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:39

My group started with a redoubt that they took from slavers, who were allowed to have it from the rust brothers, who took it from the raven sisters, who received it as a gift from the elves, that the red runners definitely want back, that was used to fight dwarves, and contains a underground lair that hasn't been found yet. Aside from that little bit of tangled web they now occupy it.
They started out just cleaning it and taking inventory. Fixing things that were busted, and getting a working portcullis that had been destroyed when they took the tower. over a few sessions the only real steady income is the minstrel but even she can't do enough performances to make ends meet, so adventure happens. I think they've acquired around 80g and it is a fortune to them, yet only pays the help they managed to hire for a couple of months. So they are always on the hungry side for deals. They worked out a contract between Yavin and an inn on a road route that passes the redoubt. They are also cleaning out the harpies and other beasties in their local hexes. Now they just made a deal with the dog eating ogre to get him to bring them sheep along with the female Minotaur that was a survivor of the attack by the guards on the road. She is now one of the builders for the group. The guards they killed rescuing her were from a local lord a hex over that thinks very highly of himself, and funds the pirates on a lake nearby so more travel happens on the road that goes through his keep so he can charge taxes... 

Anyway what I'm trying to say is Strongholds that you build will usually step on someones toes, if not you probably haven't met all the players in your area... acquiring an existing stronghold is probably easier than building one, because of time, and some of the reasons you mentioned, lack of usable markets, food, and water until you build it... If you use the games suggestions for treasure finds your party should have a difficult time acquiring the money to pre buy, ship, and build the keep without an army to protect you, a source of funding, and a lot of good luck... I noticed you only have 10 guards. If you look at the Stronghold siege rules 10 is not enough to keep them safe, and guards are a very expensive addition to the keep as they consume but don't produce.

Good luck with all that, and if you have a spreadsheet with formulas for this that you can share please do, I know my group would love to have something to help them build the piecemeal things they are cobbling together.
GZIP: Off