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Blackonion
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Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 02:10

Can you learn talents from other professions? I like the idea, but it can blur the boundaries between professions.
Maybe profesion talents can only be learnt from a teacher or are expensive.
What do you think?
 
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The1TrueFredrix
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Re: Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 08:32

Page 40: “You cannot learn profession talents for other professions than your own”

In MY0 there is a talent that lets you learn other profession talents IIRC, but not in FL
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Blackonion
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Re: Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 13:25

Thanks. :( :(
 
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Magnapocryphe
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Re: Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 14:07

Hello!

I can't understand why frialigan forbid to Access another profession.
On a life a character Can change his job freely at least once.

More lightly, i think that giving Access to One path of another profession thanks to a talent (that must be bought before).
Example.
Général talent: polyvalent (random name)
Prof talent : path of gold.
I'm a hunter. To have the path of gold at 1, i must buy Polyvalent at 1 first.
The same to have the Path of Gold at 2. Si it cost me twice the Price. Everything is memorized on m'y sheet.

If you want more. Polyvalent works for both thé three paths of the profession, but limit thé level. It cost me one third more for each path.

Straight out of m'y mind now ^^ what do you think?
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Dudde
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Re: Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 14:32

To me this is not so much a question about HOW to do it, more like WHY would you want to?

I know that each group is different, and that many if not all GMs will introduce their version and variations of the rules. That is fine and proper. So if you want characters to be able to chose talents from other professions - just let them do that. The mechanics won't suffer from it, so it should be no problem.

I think, however, that there is something interesting in the fact that not everyone will be able to learn everything. Some talents should be reserved to a select few. Let them stay unique and special for having chosen that path. I want my players to pick any class they want to, in any combination. But once picked - they should stick with it!
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Aldorf
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Re: Profession talents

Fri 18 Jan 2019, 16:25

This question has come up in my group now and one wants to learn magic. My idea is to introduce a test to see if a character has any magical affinity. This can be expanded to include a quest with magical and/or godly puzzles which if solved will give the player bonus dice for the test. If a player has failed the test they can later retake it if they have earned new dice from a quest, but it would be really hard since they can then only roll the new die. I feel like there is potential for a lot of story building around this :)

This is my thought so far:
Character gets a number of dice for the test (WIT+INT) / 2 rounded down, netting him 2 dice. He then enters alone in this magical cave or other enclosed space and solves a series of puzzles. He performs well and is awarded a d8 bonus die. He rolls the test 2d6 + 1d8 but fails even after pushing. These dice are now spent and cannot be used in future testing. The number of successes will determine the maximum level he can obtain in a magic school. 

Another way around this is to allow characters to make deals with either deamons or gods, getting power from them but always at a cost. 
 
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Magnapocryphe
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Re: Profession talents

Sat 19 Jan 2019, 14:30

@Dudde:
Precisely to me, rules define HOW to simulate things, and GM defines WHY the rule is used or not.

To explain myself, I don't understand why Frialigan didn't allowed in their rules the fact that "One can change at least once his profession".
Rules just emulate some reality. And except if the reality said so (A world organized through hermetics casts, for example), in a common world, any body can change his profession more or less whenever he wants, and spending something (time, energy, money, etc.).
Frialigan choosed to NOT consider this explicitly:
Page 40: “You cannot learn profession talents for other professions than your own”
I find this is strange, because the Forbidden lands are a brand new world, in which freedom is the first thing you get. No laws, no complex society. You just are on your own, and try to survive.
Why not authorize such a change then? I can't see the reason.

Then, to me, such a rule should exist. ^^ because there is no cosmogonic reason to forbid this (or i don't see it), and it is something obvious that every body is free and can will some change.

And at this very moment, it is to the GM to decide, regarding the character, his life, his background, and so on, if whether or not it is acceptable to let him change from this profession to this other one. Here lies the WHY to me.

Then the HOW and th WHY are not on the same topic to me.

This is just to explain why I asked my question in this way in my former post.
Then my question is really HOW to do it. The why seems obvious to me : freedom.

You proposal is then "if you want them to pick paths in other professions do ....". It is not that I want. I want that my PC can be free, and I want that the rules don't cannibalize theirselves.
I mean, if I allow my players to pick paths in any profession, then their own profession makes no more sense. Because, after creation,there is no profession effect but the paths.
And every character will be a mix of any profession, and that risks to completely erase profession (you point at this too ;-) ).
I don't want that, because a character must have a profession that is tangible on his sheet.

Then I'm looking for some intermediate solution, that respects rules already written, and the freedom supposed in the Forbidden lands.
I want that changing profession, or exploring a news one, generate a cost for the player, and make him think about it to make it logical, fluid in his life, and interesting.
Then this change can't be at the same XP cost than normal paths, because the role of XP, to me, is to simulate the cost for the PC, letting the GM focus on the adventure, and avoiding to isolate the PC during his training etc.

And to do this, I use the MYZ mechanic, in which there is a talent that allows to change profession only once.Then I keep the idea of the Talent, for it is not mine but the creator's idea.
But, in Forbidden lands, the professional talents are paths with levels, and not in MYZ. Then the talent "new path" or "new profession" needs to manage the level of the new path too.
I addition the core rules of Forbidden lands use the expensive cost argument for paths of magic, when learned without master (then costing three times more... pretty expensive).
I figure out myself that considering that the cost for the talent "new path/profession" is itself the "overcost", even for magic. It fits well with my vision, and stay close to the rules already written.

All of this is only my point of view of course ^^
But maybe is there a better way to manage this...
By the way, i would really be interested to know the reason why they have made this choice. :-)


@Aldorf
That interesting ! Maybe I find the rule a bit complex (I like simple things XD), or else, I didn't understood well how you run it...
But I don't understand : WIT+INT...? Wits + Insight?
What is INT for? ^^
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Röteborgaren
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Re: Profession talents

Sat 19 Jan 2019, 15:20

Well the character development options are very very free in Forbidden Lands. You can make a bowslinging sorcerer or a plate-wearing druid no problem, but it's something you'll have to plan for when making your character. The most important - and as I've come to find, most character-defining - talents are all general talents. Anyone can become really good with a sword with enough practice, but only someone born to be a fighter can become a true master at it.

Personally I think the professions just mark what that character is especially talented in. If you have a warrior-mage or something, then sure they'll be great at fighting and great at magic, but an equally experienced fighter who went full in on fighting will have the upper hand in a straight up, no-magic fight. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If you give players access to multiclassing, then it would be seen as almost mandatory for all characters to get at least a few levels of magic in there, just in case.

It seems every time this discussion crops up it's because someone's players want to start slinging spells. Well if they wanted to do that why didn't they just roll up some sorcerers instead? They can still be really good at hunting or shooting or cooking or whatever floats their boat even if they're naturally inclined to magic. It seems to me, rather than this being an issue with the way the game is designed, it's a misunderstanding from the player's side. This game is very welcoming to pretty much any build.

Wanna be a dual axe-wielding barbarian with a penchant for nature? Make a druid and invest in Axe Fighter and Melee.

Wanna be an archer who can boil the blood of their enemies? Make a sorcerer and invest in the many archery talents and Marksmanship.

Wanna be a faceless man from Game of Thrones? Make a thief, put some points in Strength over Agility, and invest in Melee and fighting talents as well as the Path of the Face.

Wanna be a friggin' berserker whose blood-curdling screams drive fear into the hearts of their enemies? Make a minstrel and invest in Melee and the Path of the War Cry!


Sure, if you didn't plan to be a spellslinging knight and went with fighter because you didn't know the system well enough, tough luck. But it's a game and at the end of the day your GM could just let you retcon your build. 

Don't go overriding the basic system with houserules before you understand the system well enough to have at least an idea of what problems your tampering might cause.
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Aldorf
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Re: Profession talents

Sun 20 Jan 2019, 09:31

@Aldorf
That interesting ! Maybe I find the rule a bit complex (I like simple things XD), or else, I didn't understood well how you run it...
But I don't understand : WIT+INT...? Wits + Insight?
What is INT for? ^^
Ooops! I meant Wits + Charisma. I agree it's a bit complex, but it allows for player influence and use of their skills which I prefer.. The easiest way is to just do a straight roll. 
 
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The1TrueFredrix
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Re: Profession talents

Sun 20 Jan 2019, 12:00

Well the character development options are very very free in Forbidden Lands. You can make a bowslinging sorcerer or a plate-wearing druid no problem, but it's something you'll have to plan for when making your character. The most important - and as I've come to find, most character-defining - talents are all general talents.  […] 

It seems every time this discussion crops up it's because someone's players want to start slinging spells. Well if they wanted to do that why didn't they just roll up some sorcerers instead? They can still be really good at hunting or shooting or cooking or whatever floats their boat even if they're naturally inclined to magic. It seems to me, rather than this being an issue with the way the game is designed, it's a misunderstanding from the player's side. This game is very welcoming to pretty much any build.

Wanna be a dual axe-wielding barbarian with a penchant for nature? Make a druid and invest in Axe Fighter and Melee.
[…]
Don't go overriding the basic system with houserules before you understand the system well enough to have at least an idea of what problems your tampering might cause.
I agree
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