Rimirel
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Some wording questions/bugs

Mon 07 Jan 2019, 21:15

Hi, i started i Raven's Purge company and me and my party hame some questions.
1) Pushing roll is separate roll for critital injures with effect?
"1 point of damage at each roll for MIGHT, MOVE and MELEE."
If my dwarf push her melee attack 3 times at row, i take 1, or 4 damage?

2) How berserk talants work with Hidden combinations if character witn berserker Broken after first Step?
She makes free attack between steps (enemy cant dodge this) and AFTER we go to Step 2?

3) What makes Power level of Portal spell? 


Bug
4) On battle cards for HIdden combo we dont have Break Free action. Which card must have it? Attack or hinder?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Mon 07 Jan 2019, 21:52

1) A skill-roll is finished when you have done all your desired pushes, then you deal with the effects of the roll. So regardless of pushes or not, it is still just one skill roll. A dwarf that pushes a Melee skill roll 3 times have still just made one skill roll.

2) If you are using the Advanced Close Combat rules, the cards that you have chosen are not changed and the rules say that any extra actions is takes place outside the hidden combination. In the Swedish section we asked how Berserk really worked (when it happens). Tomas gave this answer:
"The idea with the talent is that you both recover the attribute points and attacks in your next normal turn <>"

3) I don't understand this question, sorry.

4) Normally you only use the Advanced Close Combat rules for melee combat, so if you want to cast spells, shoot arrows, etc., you don't use them and if you already are in melee combat with someone and don't have the initiative, you have to use the await card, to save some actions.
The idea with the Advanced Close Combat rules is to hide your choices from the opponent so you can perhaps trick him. If your opponent has grabbed you, the only action he is allowed is a Grapple Attack and the only action you can do is the Break Free action. Not so much hidden about that. I would say that as soon as someone has grappled someone, the "Hidden Combos" are dropped.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
Rimirel
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Mon 07 Jan 2019, 22:08

2) If you are using the Advanced Close Combat rules, the cards that you have chosen are not changed and the rules say that any extra actions is takes place outside the hidden combination. In the Swedish section we asked how Berserk really worked (when it happens). Tomas gave this answer:
"The idea with the talent is that you both recover the attribute points and attacks in your next normal turn <>"
>You must immediately attack the nearest opponent in close combat,
This part of wording talks about immidiatly ( that i read as free) attack.

> If your opponent has grabbed you, the only action he is allowed is a Grapple Attack and the only action you can do is the Break Free action. 
It makes graple attack best option in hidden combo - you lose ALL you actions if was grabed by enemy of 1 Step, because you lose you actions in moment of choosing cards. And you CANT make grapple free attemp.


I rule break free as Attack action Card because its SLOW action with melee roll/ Hinder - fast action
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Mon 07 Jan 2019, 23:17

2) If you are using the Advanced Close Combat rules, the cards that you have chosen are not changed and the rules say that any extra actions is takes place outside the hidden combination. In the Swedish section we asked how Berserk really worked (when it happens). Tomas gave this answer:
"The idea with the talent is that you both recover the attribute points and attacks in your next normal turn <>"
>You must immediately attack the nearest opponent in close combat,
This part of wording talks about immidiatly ( that i read as free) attack.

> If your opponent has grabbed you, the only action he is allowed is a Grapple Attack and the only action you can do is the Break Free action. 
It makes graple attack best option in hidden combo - you lose ALL you actions if was grabed by enemy of 1 Step, because you lose you actions in moment of choosing cards. And you CANT make grapple free attemp.


I rule break free as Attack action Card because its SLOW action with melee roll/ Hinder - fast action
Berserk say "When you are broken, you can ...". That means that you need to be broken first. When you become broken, you become prone. If you would become Berserk at the same time that you become broken, you might not have any actions left to do anything with but everyone on the battlefield knows that you are Berserk. This was what we asked Tomas about in the Swedish section. He said that you, on your next turn (when you have two fresh actions) use the talent and recover attribute points. Then your berserking character have a chance to stand up and attack someone (he is even forced to if he have someone in close combat range from him).

Grapple might be good. If successful, the attacked character is grappled, prone and have lost his weapons. But since you can't grapple with weapons, the one that did the Grapple either has to drop his weapons or have them sheathed before doing the Grapple. It is good if he succeeds, but remember that a Grapple can be dodged or parried so if the big wrestler fails his grapple, he stands there without any weapons. This is usually bad.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
Rimirel
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Mon 07 Jan 2019, 23:46

2) If you are using the Advanced Close Combat rules, the cards that you have chosen are not changed and the rules say that any extra actions is takes place outside the hidden combination. In the Swedish section we asked how Berserk really worked (when it happens). Tomas gave this answer:
"The idea with the talent is that you both recover the attribute points and attacks in your next normal turn <>"
>You must immediately attack the nearest opponent in close combat,
This part of wording talks about immidiatly ( that i read as free) attack.

> If your opponent has grabbed you, the only action he is allowed is a Grapple Attack and the only action you can do is the Break Free action. 
It makes graple attack best option in hidden combo - you lose ALL you actions if was grabed by enemy of 1 Step, because you lose you actions in moment of choosing cards. And you CANT make grapple free attemp.


I rule break free as Attack action Card because its SLOW action with melee roll/ Hinder - fast action
Berserk say "When you are broken, you can ...". That means that you need to be broken first. When you become broken, you become prone. If you would become Berserk at the same time that you become broken, you might not have any actions left to do anything with but everyone on the battlefield knows that you are Berserk. This was what we asked Tomas about in the Swedish section. He said that you, on your next turn (when you have two fresh actions) use the talent and recover attribute points. Then your berserking character have a chance to stand up and attack someone (he is even forced to if he have someone in close combat range from him).

Grapple might be good. If successful, the attacked character is grappled, prone and have lost his weapons. But since you can't grapple with weapons, the one that did the Grapple either has to drop his weapons or have them sheathed before doing the Grapple. It is good if he succeeds, but remember that a Grapple can be dodged or parried so if the big wrestler fails his grapple, he stands there without any weapons. This is usually bad.
1)
>You immediately recover as many points in the attribute that has been decreased to zero as your rank in BERSERKER.
I dont see any reasons why orks or berserks must prone, its immidiatly trigger effect and immidiatly attack after. Why wording so bad?
2) I know that Grapple is good action, but graple in Adv. combat without break free action is absolutly imba. If status (grapples) can be taken in this sub system in this subsystem MUST be contrameasures. Its a basis of working of any good subsystem. 
I think break free as attack - Its a Slow action with Melee roll.
P.S. If you was  prone on step 1 in Hidden combo you CANT attack if you are not choose Hinder before. You cant change you cards and lose all you action. Enemy hit you on step 2 by fast attack. 
At the next round enemy also fast attack and you cant do nothing, and if you get 1 damage you CANT make Break free Roll. Its looks like a BIG PROBLEM. You cant defend and you lose of attemps of break free.
 
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Tue 08 Jan 2019, 00:52

1) I have given you the answer the lead designer of the game gave to us in the Swedish section. If you want to do it another way, good for you. But remember that the Berserk doesn't give you any free attacks or anything like that. It allows you to recover attribute points "When you are Broken" but also forces you, when you use the talent, to attack the nearest opponent in close combat (you are berserk after all). If we look at the orcs Unbreakable talent, it also say "When you are broken". Neither of the two talents specify when you use them, only that you can only use them when you are broken but you get the effect immediately when you use the talents. If you go down (i.e. become broken) and you have already used your two actions, you can't do anything (neither talents give extra actions, remember). That is the reason you use those two talents on your next turn (or on any turn that you are broken, really), so you have two fresh actions. Hey, you can even wait two minutes and then use it, if you still are broken by then. But if you want to use it at the instant when you go down, even though you perhaps don't have any actions left, good for you, give the enemy a chance  ;)

About being broken. You can be broken in a lot of different ways (well, four). One example:
STRENGTH: You're knocked senseless. <> If you're not dead, you can only crawl and mumble <>

When I read that, you are prone. But if you have another interpretation of it, use that.

When I said it was worded badly, it is the word "immediately". It means that you recover points immediately when you use the talent. It doesn't mean that the only time you can use the talent is when you become broken. Most often it is actually bad to do it then. It is usually better to wait for a new turn (unless your character have not done anything in the turn yet).

2) It happens (a lot actually) when using Hidden Combos, that one or more actions can't be used. In our group, we use the Shove actions a lot just to trip someone so he can't use his next action (since you can't change your card and if you next action is attack, you're screwed).

If you are grappled during Hidden Combo combat, both you and the grappler are prone (without weapons). This stops Hidden Combos (normally), but if any of the two combatants have used the Await action, they have actions left this round. Regardless, the next round of combat will use the normal rules of combat (since the only actions the two can do is very limited).

Also, I don't see any big reasons to use hidden combo rules with grapple (just because of the limited choices both sides have).
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
 
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thebwt
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Tue 08 Jan 2019, 00:57

3) What makes Power level of Portal spell? 
I know this one!
Power level for a spells is always equal to the amount of willpower that you choose to spend on the spell (it's "Base Power Level") + the number of successes on willpower dice rolled.
Example:
You cast portal to change dimensions. You just want a single power level because extra power levels don't do anything, so you don't use any extra willpower. But every spell cast requires at least one willpower.
You spend one willpower. (because you have to)
because you spent that willpower you must roll a die. (you can bypass this by "safe casting", which is a whole other topic)
  • If you roll a 6, the total power level is 2, 1 for willpower, 1 for the die roll. Magic is normally risky
  • If you roll anything else, the power level is 1, for the willpower spent
  • Additionally, if you roll a 1 you roll on the spell mishap table.
Last edited by thebwt on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 07:51, edited 3 times in total.
 
Rimirel
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Tue 08 Jan 2019, 06:41

Also, I don't see any big reasons to use hidden combo rules with grapple (just because of the limited choices both sides have).
Grapple with Hidden Combo gives first initiative combatatan a super powerfull disable. See
Two combatant 
Wolfkin (W) - Initiative 1
Human (W) - Initiative 10

Cards
W - Attack + Double Up
H - defence + attack

Step 1
W (Attack) - Grapple. 
H (Defend) - try parry. Another action is absolutly useless now.


Wolfkin wins 

Step 2
W (Double up) - Free attack
H (Attack) - NOTHING, or if use my variant Break free.
If Step 2 free attack will be success then Human LOSE you break free attemp. 
Repeat this combo to death. Human can only cry.
Now i see 2 homeruls must be made.
1) Break free is attack.
2) Break free dont lose for damage

How works a "stops" of hidden combinations i dont see rules abou it? What with attacker and defender dont used but choose on card actions? 
Last edited by Rimirel on Tue 08 Jan 2019, 07:36, edited 1 time in total.
 
Rimirel
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Tue 08 Jan 2019, 07:28

And another questions
1) Berserker works only in combat?
2) In hidden combo resolution is?
Attacker ini 1
Defender ini 10

Step 1
Attacker 
Defender

Step 2

Attacker 

Defender


OR 

Step 1
Attacker 
Defender

Step 2
Defender
Attacker
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Some wording questions/bugs

Tue 08 Jan 2019, 11:36

I don't mean that the Hidden Combo stops mid round but that might be the result of the choices made.
An example:
A1 and B1 are within Arm's Length distance from each other. Since A1 is wants to attack, he wants to use the Hidden Combos. A1 with Initiative 1 selects PREPARE and STRIKE. B1 with Initiative 9 selects MANEUVER and AWAIT.

A1:s Turn - Initiative 1
STEP 1
A1 goes first with his PREPARE, he choices the Swing action (he has a Longsword, a Heavy weapon).
B1 then makes his choice with his MANEUVER card, the Retreat action and he succeeds and he is now Near A1.
STEP 2
A1 has to forfeit this action because there is no longer anyone within range that he can use any of the actions on his STRIKE card.
B1 selected the AWAIT card which mean that he saves his second action in this Hidden Combo duel for later.

B1:s Turn - Initiative 9 (Since B1 selected the AWAIT card).
B1 has one Slow action left. He decides to FLEE.

The Berserker talent doesn't specify when it can be used, only that the berserker has to be broken when he does. Although as a result of the use of Berserker, if not already in combat, combat will most likely commence.
“I’d say thistles, but nobody listens to me, anyway.” - Eeyore
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